[Brad Shreve]
ANT I want to welcome you to Queer We Are.
[Comedian ANT]
Well, thank you. It’s lovely to be here.
[Brad Shreve]
It’s great to have you here. You know, I clearly remember seeing one of your standup routines for the first time. And even though I was with my ex, I still had a good time. I remember laughing nonstop. Unfortunately, I’m so old, I don’t remember if it was on TV or I saw you live. Either way, it was great. But do you consider yourself a genuinely nice guy now?
[Comedian ANT]
Yes. In the past? No. So I know that’s not really an answer, but that’s the answer.
[Brad Shreve]
Well, there’s a reason I ask, and I’m going to tell you. There was definitely a period in your past where you were, and I know this from personal experience, an incident, that is very unlikely that you remember, but it was a big deal to me, and we’re going to talk about it right after the music. I’m your host, Brad shreve.
[Comedian ANT]
And I’m comedian ANT.
[Brad Shreve]
And Queer We Are
Welcome to Queer we Are, where you’ll hear inspirational and motivational yet entertaining stories by LGBTQ entertainers, athletes, politicians, activists, or maybe even someone right there in your neighborhood. I’m Brad, and I’ll discuss with Queer individuals about their successes, their challenges, and what they learned along the way. My guest, ANT, which is spelled just like it sounds and is in all caps, is one of the most successful comedians of our time, a regular guest on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and the Tyra Bank show. He’s the only comedian to appear on all five seasons of NBC’s hit series Last Comic Standing, and he’s done a lot more than that on television, which we’re going to get into some of it, but in a nutshell, I’m going to say my definition is he’s damn funny.
[Comedian ANT]
Thank you.
[Brad Shreve]
You’re welcome. I only speak the truth. This show is about you. But I’m going to talk a little bit because I have a story to tell. But it is about you, so that’s the good part.
[Comedian ANT]
Okay.
[Brad Shreve]
How I know that you’re generally nice is you and I met about 20 years ago, and it wasn’t really a party. It was more of a get together. It was for someone’s birthday, a mutual friend, apparently. And I was moving past a pretty dark time in my life, really dark, and I was a wall flower, just trying to avoid everybody, sitting there in my little pity party, and lo and behold, guest who walks up and sits down with me.
[Comedian ANT]
Jay Leno.
[Brad Shreve]
No, it wasn’t Jay Leno. As I said, you came in, you sat down, we had a conversation. You made me smile. You made me laugh. And when you left, you gave me your phone number, and I was excited. I thought, this guy wants to get in my pants. So I told my friend that was there, and he said, maybe, but probably not. He’s just a nice guy like that. So I lost that number almost immediately. So 20 years later, I want to say, it’s great to see you again.
[Comedian ANT]
You’re so kind. That was a very nice story. I don’t remember it, and I’m so sorry, but I will say this, Brad. It cost nothing to be kind. It cost nothing to be kind. And I wasn’t always kind. I got wrapped up in fame for a long time. I got wrapped up in money. I got wrapped up in the trappings. And I forgot the cardinal rule that my parents brought me up with, which is kindness is always important. And then there’s that famous Maya Angelo quote, which is, people will not remember what you said, and they won’t remember what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel. And you just gave a great example of that. And I have millions of stories like that where people have made me feel welcome, seen, heard. And that’s just something I try and do now.
[Brad Shreve]
I really needed you then. So thank you very much.
[Comedian ANT]
You’re welcome.
[Brad Shreve]
Define funny for me.
[Comedian ANT]
Wow. No one has ever asked me that. I’ve been asked every question you could say. I don’t think I’ve never been asked that question. Define funny. Funny is something that you can relate to, that speaks to your truth, that makes you laugh. Norman Lear. One time I had a conversation with Norman and I, and I just said, how do you come up with these ideas? And he said, you know, ANT, two people can see a car accident. One person sees the horror in it, and the other person sees the humor. And he said, I’ve always been the person to see the humor. I thought, wow, that’s beautiful. So I think funny for me one is subjective, because what some people find funny, I don’t, and what other people don’t find funny, I think is hilarious. And I just think it’s about identification. If you can identify with some sort of truth within you, that’s what funny becomes.
[Brad Shreve]
We can all be funny at different times, but to do it for a living, is there something inherent that is there, or do you think that can be learned?
[Comedian ANT]
It’s interesting because I mentor a lot of young comedians and some of them right away just have it. They just know how to look at a situation and find the funny in it and others have to really sit down and really think and work at it. So I think that you can say funny things but I think to be a comedian and to entertain you have to have something else and that is confidence and timing. Timing. I think you can teach confidence, I don’t think you can.
[Brad Shreve]
Well, you were raised Greek Orthodox church. Am I correct?
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah.
[Brad Shreve]
So it’s obvious you’re not so Orthodox these days. And I know that you’ve talked about bullying before that you had in school when you were younger. Was comedy something that you learned as a result of all that or that you used it as a tool? Because that’s a very common story.
[Comedian ANT]
It’s a very common story and I think for me that might be part of it is sort of it’s hard to beat somebody up when you’re laughing with them so there’s that element. But I think more importantly for me, I was so starved for attention and it wasn’t that I wasn’t getting attention, I wasn’t getting as much as I thought I deserved. And what I realized from a very young early age is that when you’re funny you get attention heaped on you. And I loved it. I mean I’m still an attention. I call myself a promosexual. I’m not a homosexual, I’m a promosexual. And I just love attention and I don’t think that’s ever going to change or go away. And there’s never enough. This is never enough. I mean I’ve played huge crowds, 20, 30, 40,000 people crowds and little tiny five and six person dinner parties and I’m still craving that same attention from both. Never enough.
[Brad Shreve]
I love watching somebody that’s passionate and you can tell they love what they’re doing. I see that when I see people in theater and I can tell you every routine that I’ve seen, every episode of shows that I’ve seen, you’re having a great time and you can tell, you can tell you’re not faking it.
[Comedian ANT]
Brad. I love what I do. Look, I got the gift of being able to get people to forget their pain for a few minutes and I don’t take that lightly and I love what I do. If you were to read my act on a piece of paper you would say it’s not that funny. But I can animate it and I can make it funny because I believe in what I do and that is I’m an entertainer and my job is to just get you to forget. And I can’t tell you how many times people have come up to me like my son passed away a year ago and I haven’t laughed. I get emails and letters and stuff from people and it’s just really a beautiful gift and it’s not one that I would trade, and it’s not one that I take for granted.
[Brad Shreve]
It really is a gift. It’s a beautiful gift, just seeing people laugh. I mean, look at when you see a kid giggling and laughing. There’s just a feeling you have.
[Comedian ANT]
Oh, it’s the best feeling.
[Brad Shreve]
And they just let it go.
[Comedian ANT]
It’s just a ball. And right now, during today’s climate and what’s happening in the world, I think we need laughter more and more and more. I think it’s a terrible shame seeing comedians getting canceled. I may not agree with a lot of what people up in arms about Dave Chappelle up in arms about Joe Rogan up in arms about this. And you know what? I think that they need to be entitled, because comedians take the temperature of America, we take the temperature of the world, and we tell you how we’re doing. And if you try and silence those voices because you don’t agree with them, you’re doing yourself and you’re doing society a big disservice.
[Brad Shreve]
I agree. I saw Sarah Silverman being beat up on I watched her on YouTube. It was an old talk show, and it was all about the cancel culture. And at one time, I was in that, and then I thought, kind of like I said earlier, anything would be funny. And it’s a great way to teach. Blazing Saddles was as offensive as it gets.
[Comedian ANT]
There is nobody like Cleavon, little nobody like Cleveland.
[Brad Shreve]
Exactly.
[Comedian ANT]
Nobody. I have idolized that queen for years, and he never, ever came out publicly. But, I mean, it’s so obvious. He was an African American gay man way ahead of his time, and he.
[Brad Shreve]
Looked hot as hell in that leather cowboy uniform, or suede.
[Comedian ANT]
Or chapped.
[Brad Shreve]
Oh, yes.
[Comedian ANT]
But I think everybody looks good in chaps you know.
[Brad Shreve]
What’s interesting about that is I don’t remember the actor’s name. The one that was the sidekick to Slim Pickens. He was really uncomfortable treating Cleavon and the others the way he was supposed to treat him. It was hard for him to be that racist. And Cleavon goes, no, give it to me. Give it to me. That’s what this is all about.
[Comedian ANT]
Give me something to work with.
[Brad Shreve]
Exactly.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah. And I think that there’s a difference, too, by the way. Like, I think cancel culture as a as a thing, as a place. Like, if you’re Harvey Weinstein and you’re raping women and silencing them through NDAs and getting away with it, yeah, you should be canceled. But I think that if you’re just bringing light or attention to a different opinion because you’re a comedian, I don’t think they should ever be canceled. Now, if you’re a comedian that’s out there raping people yeah, cancel your ass. But if you’re using your words to draw attention to something, that’s a different point of view. I think everybody is entitled to their perspective. And if you think that your opinion is the only opinion, sometimes the greatest villains ever written are the ones that don’t know they’re the villain. Sometimes you might be the villain and not even know it.
[Brad Shreve]
Oh, that’s so true. That’s so true. I was at a comedy show with a friend and they said something political, and my friend stood up, went, Boo, boo. It was some right wing comment. And we actually ended up having drinks with the guy, and he said, don’t you get it? That’s what I’m supposed to do. That’s my job.
[Comedian ANT]
That is our job is to draw attention to things. And I say away from politics, I talk more about bullying and I talk more about the gay experience, and I talk more about the differences between straight and gay people and all tongue in cheek and all just to sort of draw attention to. At the end of the day, we’re not different at all. We’re not different at all.
[Brad Shreve]
No. And that’s actually one of the reasons why I started this show, because I want people to understand that.
[Comedian ANT]
Queer we are!
[Brad Shreve]
Well, one thing that is also cliche when it comes to comedians is there’s a lot of depression, drugs, suicide, and we’re going to go down your rocky road.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah, but don’t call someone’s depression or mental illness cliche. I don’t think that’s very kind.
[Brad Shreve]
I’m sorry.
[Comedian ANT]
Because those are very serious things.
[Brad Shreve]
I apologize.
[Comedian ANT]
But I’m just saying, someone who was friends with Robin Williams is not cliche. As someone who has suffered depression, it is not cliche. As someone who has suffered mental illness, it is definitely not cliche. And I got to tell you, if you’re talking about suicide, everybody listening right now. We would rather suffer with you than without you. So ask for help. People will move mountains to help you.
[Brad Shreve]
And it’s a good point. I’ve dealt with addiction and alcohol as well. I’m in recovery and I have bipolar disorder. That was a nightmare situation until I got recovered. But I was referring to cliche as comedian because it’s what we think. But the reality is it happens a lot. So you’re right, it is not cliche. Yeah, I shouldn’t discount that. But why do you think that is so common? The john Belushi. Robin Williams. John Candy’s.
[Comedian ANT]
I don’t know why it’s more common in comedians, but you bring up a valid point. It is inherently highly, much more visible in comedians, especially when high profile comedians like Robin Williams take their lives. Then the light really shines on it, and then it opens the discussion up for we’re the sad clown. We’re the sad clowns. And a lot of times comedians will use their act to sort of medicate and to sort of work stuff through, which sort of, I think, builds on that whole thing. But I don’t really have the easy answer, other than I think a lot of people in the entertainment industry are depressive people who think attention is going to cure their depression. And it just doesn’t then you think money is going to cure how you feel, and it doesn’t. Fame and money and having a boyfriend with a big dick didn’t cure my depression. And I had to be home every day at 04:00 to burp it. I mean, that did not cure my depression. You know what cured my depression? Seeing a therapist and getting on antidepressants. That seemed to do the trick.
[Brad Shreve]
There’s something about you that really reminds me of Robin Williams, and that is when I see you on stage and I’ve seen you host TV shows and acting like Robin, you look at ANT and you’re just like, boy, this guy is just always happy. He’s got it all. I wish I could be happy all the time like he could. And we know what happened to Robin Williams. And you had your tough times too, right? Talk about suicidal.
[Comedian ANT]
Absolutely. I’ve been had suicidal. I’ve tried it. I’ve been clinically depressed. I’ve been situationally depressed. I’ve had money, I’ve lost money. I’ve had fame, I’ve lost fame. I’ve had relationships and lost relationships. You know, the whole weight issues, food issues, sex issues, drug and alcohol issues. You know, the whole gamut. It’s not you know, there’s that thing about, you know, just be careful about, you know, what you say to people because you never really know what they’re going through. You really illustrated that. Absolutely. But I was just texting someone, and I don’t know whose quote this is, but it’s one of my favorite quotes, which is, the measure of a man is and how many times he falls down. It’s how many times he gets up. And then my other favorite quote is a Mark Twain quote where the two best days of a man’s life are the day he was born and the day he found out why. And I’m at that place now where I’m just now finding out why. And my job is to mentor and help and be of service.
[Brad Shreve]
We’ve talked about your suicidal periods that you went through, and you went through the drugs and alcohol. You went through a period of overeating, and we may get into more details with those, but you’re still here. So there must have been some sliver of hope to keep you here that you’re sitting here talking to me. Do you know what that is?
[Comedian ANT]
The evolution of hope, I think the evolution of hope. When my partner got sick and was dying, hope went from, oh, I hope he makes it past this. I hope the drugs work. Hope this help. Then it became, I hope he’s not in pain. And then it became, I hope he goes quickly. And then it became, I hope I survived this after he’s gone. And I relapsed after that after having ten years clean and sober. I relapsed after he passed away. And I’m just now back to being twelve years sober again after that. After spending two and a half years doing drugs and shooting up and drinking into oblivion. And then I had hope again. And that hope was, maybe there is a power greater than me out there, and maybe it doesn’t hate me, and maybe the universe is conspiring for me. And to be honest with you, Brad, all I did was say a little prayer. If there’s something out there, I could use your help. That was it. And hope returned. And we started this conversation off by you asking how I was. And I said to you that I am blessed and highly favored. And you said, wow, I’ve never heard that last part. And I’ve got a life beyond my wildest dreams. Why? Because I woke up on this side of the dirt today, and I’m really clear about that. Secondly, I get to help and mentor lots and lots of people, and I get to be a good example today. I was a great example of a bad example once, and now I’m a great example of a good example, and I’m much happier being there. And then the last thing is I get to remind people that we’re the light, that we stand as beacons of attraction to all those little souls in the dark. We don’t step into the dark. We’re the guardians of this gift. And this gift is, we woke up today, and this gift is, we’ve got something to say or something to still do. And look at the platform you’ve created. You’re amplifying that message, and that’s a gift. We don’t step into the dark, because if we do, there’s not going to be light for anybody to find their way. We are the guardians of that gift. And here you are amplifying that message, which tells me we’re both on the right track from 20 years ago, sitting, giving you my number.
[Brad Shreve]
Exactly.
[Comedian ANT]
Full circle.
[Brad Shreve]
So as a child, we’re talking about comedy. As a child and a teen, what did you want to be when you grew up?
[Comedian ANT]
A flight attendant.
[Brad Shreve]
That’s similar. I want to be a person on a cruise ship, like Gopher on Love Boat.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah, I wanted to be a flight attendant, and I did. I became a flight attendant. I worked for a big airline. I can’t tell you their name because they sued me, and I’m under an agreement not to say their name, but their initials were TWA. And I got fired from that job, thankfully, and that’s how I stumbled into comedy.
[Brad Shreve]
So when did you discover that you were funny and that you could and wanted to make a living at it?
[Comedian ANT]
I think it sort of discovered me. I had always been funny on the airplanes and on the PA systems and stuff. And I had an experience on a flight before where somebody was on the plane and said, you should try stand up. And they sort of helped me a little bit. And I don’t know, that was sort of it sort of I stumbled into it, I think blindly not really understanding the work involved and that it was a craft and that it was an art form. And that slowly started to sort of slowly enveloped me. And then what happens is, and I think most comedians you’ll interview will tell you this, you get bitten by the bug. And once you get bitten by the bug, you are always a stand up comedian. That’s it. Your life will be on stage. You will only feel alive when you are on stage, and you will crave nothing more than to get on stage. Like I said, I’ve played for 20, 30,000 people, and I’ve done dinner parties for six. And to me they are exactly the same experience.
[Brad Shreve]
I’ve never heard anybody tell me that before.
[Comedian ANT]
Exactly the same experience. Getting six people to laugh or 20,000 people to laugh feels the same. It’s great. There’s no better feeling. Can’t top it.
[Brad Shreve]
I heard that you started stand up in 1991. Do you know if that’s right? Or in the ballpark?
[Comedian ANT]
I think you’re in the ballpark. I want to say 1993.
[Brad Shreve]
Okay. So it actually was pretty quick because one of your first big shots in television was you were semi regular on Happily Ever After for two years.
[Comedian ANT]
No, for five years.
[Brad Shreve]
Oh, was it for five?
[Comedian ANT]
It was on it for five years. And what happened was I did a pilot for Fox. I did a pilot for Fox with Jamie Kennedy and Denise Richards and Sean William Scott and a lot of young little actors. And I was the oldest one playing a young high schooler. And the show didn’t get picked up on Fox, but the creator of that show was a man named Ron Levitt, who had co created and married with children. These they were creating a new network called The WB. And I got a phone call and I said, Ronnie really liked you from the pilot at Fox. Would you be willing to come in and read for this show, for this new network called The WB, which is Warner Bros. Is creating a broadcast network? And I did, and they put me on the show. And that was sort of and I got to work with Jessica Han and Shannon Tweed and Nikki Cox and just really great experience. Worked with Dana Dore and Stephanie Hodge and Jeff Pearson were the stars of the show. And it was just really a wonderful, wonderful experience. And it was my first foray into getting a regular weekly stint on television and in the LA area. It aired on Channel Five on Sundays at 09:00 p.m.. And it did relatively okay. And then the WB sort of went away. When the CW came around, the CW merged UPN and the WB merged and became the CW.
[Brad Shreve]
You said it did okay. If you’re around for five years, it must have done a little more than okay.
[Comedian ANT]
It still airs in Canada and in Finland. You want to hear a funny story about that. So I get a frantic phone call from a Disney publicist, and she was like, listen, do you have any plans to go to Finland? Finland? I have to stop you right now. And I’m like, no, I’ve never had any plans to go to Finland, and to this day, I’ve never been to Finland. And she’s like, we’re the number one show there. I just want you to know you to be mobbed. And I was like, well, thank you for that, but yeah, I have no plans on going to Finland. No. I played a high school kid. What was I going to do?
[Brad Shreve]
Well, the reason I brought it up is this was in the mid ninety s, am I right?
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah.
[Brad Shreve]
There wasn’t a whole lot of gay representation before that. There were a lot of sitcoms, and that’s really not regulars on the show.
[Comedian ANT]
Right.
[Brad Shreve]
Some examples, there was Soap with Billy Crystal. And you had Stephen on Dynasty, the first one who I was madly in love with. Billy Crystal was hysterical on Soap. I loved watching him, but both him and the Dynasty character, they weren’t played very well at all. I mean, both of them eventually ended up with women, which infuriated me. There may have been others before that, but those are the only two that I recall. And then here you came around, you were openly gay on the show. That was relatively new.
[Comedian ANT]
I was openly gay publicly. I mean, I did The Tonight Show. I’ve done The Tonight Show, what, 14, 20 times, I don’t know how many times. Done Howard Stern numerous times. And I’ve always just been myself. I’ve always been myself. I’ve never wanted to hide who I was, even though I had agents at the time saying, if you do this, it’ll be the kiss of death to your career. And I said, I don’t want a career where I don’t get to be me. What kind of career was that? And it was very limiting, and I was very typecast. But it’s okay, typecast me. I’m fine with it because I exist. How can I be typecast if I actually exist?
[Brad Shreve]
And you’re working and working a lot.
[Comedian ANT]
And I was working. I became the face of VH1 for many years.
[Brad Shreve]
Yes, you did.
[Comedian ANT]
And that was a great accomplishment for me. And I’ve read in newspapers that I was sort of a groundbreaking personality that made it safe for others, and it’s very rewarding to hear that. I don’t know if I actually feel like that. I just feel like I was just true to myself.
[Brad Shreve to listeners]
Right now. You can do yourself a favor. It won’t take but a moment. It’s easy as hell, and you will not miss a single second of this episode. Look at the app that you’re on, whether you’re on the phone or on the computer, and look for the button that says either subscribe or follow. Now take your finger and click that button, and from this point forward, you’ll be notified every time a new episode of Queer We Are comes out. And so you won’t miss a single episode. This has been a public service announcement.
[Brad Shreve]
You’re a trailblazer going back to that TV series. That show was on before Tales of the City. It was on before My So Called Life, Wilson Cruise eventually came out on that. You were before Ellen, you were before Friends, and you were way before Will and Grace. Did you know then, or at least do you know now that you were a trailblazer?
[Comedian ANT]
No, I only read about that and I hear about that. But again, I don’t feel like I was doing anything except living my truth. And it’s hard to sort of think of yourself as a trailblazer when you’re just living your truth, no matter what. I just live my truth, and that’s what I tell young people, just be you. Just be you. If you’re in this entertainment industry, they’re buying you, so why not sell the real you? Don’t try and package something that’s not real because eventually people see through that. I mean, I love Rosie O’Donnell, I really do, but she packaged something different. And then when it became time for her to be herself, people had a hard time accepting that. And I don’t know, I don’t have an opinion. Right or wrong, I really love Rosie, and she’s another trailblazer because now she lives her truth and she’s very outspoken, and I think she does a lot for the gay community. And she doesn’t get enough credit. She does, and she gets a lot of backlash and stuff. And I think that that’s terrible because she’s a trailblazer. Rosie all the time.
[Brad Shreve]
Ellen is very real, just like you, both of you. You can tell when somebody’s faking it. And you’re similar in that you’re both storytellers.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah,
[Brad Shreve]
You weren’t up there just cracking jokes.
[Comedian ANT]
I try not to crack jokes. I mean, there are jokes in the stories because that’s what we do, but they’re all based in the truth. Everything I talk about is based in truth. Everything. Because it’s about that identification people can’t identify with. When you started off with that first question, you asked me about, like, what is funny? And it’s about identification. People have to identify with something, and if you’re lying, they’re just not going to identify with you.
[Brad Shreve]
When you start doing stand up in 1991 or that time period, it was in the midst of the AIDS crisis. It was a few years before the AIDS crisis hit its peak as far as number of deaths. And the world wasn’t really embracing the LGBTQ community at that time>
[Comedian ANT]
not at all.
[Brad Shreve]
And I know you’ve dealt with internalized homophobia. How did that come to play when you started doing your stand up? And how were you able to move past it when.
[Comedian ANT]
I first started doing stand up Brad, I wasn’t out. And this is an interesting story. And I wasn’t doing very well. I was bombing. Why? Because there was no identification. People could just tell I was lying. And I remember I bombed one night at the Improv in Los Angeles. And as I was walking off the stage, Don Rickles approached me and he said, what the hell was that? I said, that was me bombing. And he goes, who the fuck is Marcy? I go, well, if you listen to my act, she’s the girl I’m dating. And he looked at me and he goes, you’re a Fagala and everybody knows it. He goes talk about that. Ever since that night, I changed my act. I started telling the truth. And I got to tell you, I credit Don Rickles for getting me on the right path of understanding that comedy is rooted in truth.
[Brad Shreve]
That is awesome. That Don Rickles was the catalyst to be yourself and got your career going. How many people can say that?
[Comedian ANT]
No. And he mentored me and helped me. And people see a lot of influence of Paul Lynn and Don Rickles. They see a lot of that in sort of my act. And it’s like, yeah, absolutely you do.
[Brad Shreve]
And I can’t even picture that because your whole stand up routine is about being gay and watching you on Leno. And it was no secret you were gay.
[Comedian ANT]
It was no secret I was one. On Mars they knew I was gay.
[Brad Shreve]
So to someone that needs to hear it today, how were you able to move past that homophobia?
[Comedian ANT]
It’s really difficult to hate someone who you’re laughing with. So funny is funny.
[Brad Shreve]
You said that before. Is that true for yourself?
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah.
[Brad Shreve]
When you’re making yourself laugh?
[Comedian ANT]
I did not like who I was for a long, long time. And now I love who I am and I crack myself up. I do.
[Brad Shreve]
That is a gift.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah, it is. And I know what I’m about to say and I still laugh. I don’t know if that’s mental illness.
[Brad Shreve]
You know, who cares?
[Comedian ANT]
Who cares?
[Brad Shreve]
As long as you’re having a good time.
[Comedian ANT]
Absolutely.
[Brad Shreve]
Who gives a damn?
[Comedian ANT]
I’m desperate to know what that scroll says behind you. A scroll on the wall.
[Brad Shreve]
Oh, okay. Yes. I didn’t know you could see that. It says it has the Buddha. I don’t know if the Buddha really says this, because there are a lot of things attributed to Buddha. Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you’re doing, you will be successful.
[Comedian ANT]
There it is. And that just ties in beautifully with what we’ve just been talking.
[Brad Shreve]
That’s what I was thinking as I read it. It actually gave me chills because that’s everything you’ve been saying this whole time.
[Comedian ANT]
What do they say? If you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life. And I love what I do.
[Brad Shreve]
You’re just full of I don’t want to say platitudes because that tends to be negative. I’ll say platitudes, but they’re good because they’re true.
[Comedian ANT]
I think platitudes is a positive word. And I think there are empty platitudes and there are platitudes that are sincere and mine are sincere. I love that you’re amplifying voices for good. Not enough people do that.
[Brad Shreve]
Well, you mentioned earlier that you weren’t always good.
[Comedian ANT]
Kind.
[Brad Shreve]
and friendly and nice. Kind. You were not kind.
[Comedian ANT]
Yes.
[Brad Shreve]
Thank you for correcting me. But you were everywhere. I mean, you were doing your stand ups, you had your show on Logo, you were all over VH1, you had your own series, and your life amidst all of that came crashing down. Tell us what happened and when was that?
[Comedian ANT]
Well, my partner died twelve years ago. I told you, Actually died 14 years ago. So I’m twelve, almost twelve years sober. So it was that incident. I don’t know which one you’re exactly referring to because there have been a couple then my sister was killed when my partner was dying. It was expected because he got diagnosed with non Hodgkin’s lymphoma. And we knew it was coming late stage, so that was something you could prepare for. But when my sister was killed, suddenly you can’t really prepare for that. And my world came crashing down then. And then eight years ago, my dad was diagnosed with a very rare brain cancer called he had a high grade Glioblastoma, which is a rare brain tumor, aggressive. And watching him slowly die and watching the effect that on my mother because they’ve been married for many, many years was very difficult. But I have recovery. I am recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. So I know I am never alone, and I know to always find the evolution of hope. And I know that joy is wherever I look for it. And today I’m going through my dog who came to rehab with me, who buried my sister, who helped bury my partner, who buried my dad with me, who has been on the road with me, been on red carpet, been on television shows, is dying now. And I get to walk this journey with him, and I get to just flip the script. I can either wallow in it and make it about me, or I can see it for what it is, which is an opportunity to be of service and to help something else. That’s what it’s about. It’s about showing up for others great and small.
[Brad Shreve]
You were in those times where, like I said, you couldn’t turn on TV without seeing ANT.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah.
[Brad Shreve]
Did you ever lose sight that you were a comedian?
[Comedian ANT]
I was always working, so except the time where I went to had to go to treatment and I was sort of put on everybody’s sort of blacklist because I had relapsed during work on a set that’s never good. And then fired from that show. So just because you didn’t see me doesn’t mean I wasn’t working. Because I was always working again. Except for the times treatment. But what happened was I don’t think I’ve ever shared this, but it was all by design. Something had to do for me what I couldn’t do for me. And if the merry go round didn’t stop, I would have ended up dead. So the merry go round stopped and then I made a conscious decision to pull back to put my recovery first. I had to put it first. Which meant cut back on the TV appearances, cut back on the shows, cut back on the touring, cut back on red carpets, cut back on all of it because without sobriety, I would have none of that. And then what happened, Brad, was I reevaluated when I got sober and that stuff didn’t seem as important anymore. Being on television did not seem that it’s not that important anymore. I have a life beyond my wildest dreams because I can come and go as I please. I’m not under a deal with a network or VH1 anymore. I can do anything I want. And there’s a lot of freedom in that. And don’t get me wrong, I am thankful to everybody at VH1. I am thankful to everybody at NBC. I am thankful to all those people. They gave me a life beyond anything I could have ever imagined. So please don’t hear gratitude because there is a lot of gratitude. But I’m also thankful for my relapse because it told me I needed to slow down and it told me I needed to reevaluate what I think is important. Because at the end of the day, Brad, everything we have is on loan. We can’t take any of it with us. So, you know, I got to, I got to reevaluate. Like what am I putting? What am I putting? My everything I focus on grows and everything I neglect is neglected. And I was focusing on the wrong stuff. Now I focus on family and friends and relationships and mentoring and being of service as opposed to money, power and prestige.
[Brad Shreve]
Well, you’ve got twelve years of sobriety. I’m not going to say congratulations. That drives me crazy. I mean you’ve got almost twelve. I’m not going to say congratulations because you did not win a prize. You worked your ass off for it. So I’m going to say great job.
[Comedian ANT]
I really don’t like when people praise you for because all I’m doing is behaving the way human beings are supposed to behave and want a medal for it. But that’s the nature of sobriety. We celebrate our victories and it’s very hard to stay sober. I’m not going to, not going to candy coated or sugarcoat it. If you’re out there and you’re struggling with addiction, my heart goes out to you and there is a solution. And I hope that you find it. If you’re listening to this podcast and you’re struggling, there is a solution. Know that. And many of us recovered. I am recovered. But you’re right. Yeah. We always want to be patted on the back for living the life that everybody else is supposed to live. Like you don’t understand. I showed up at work on time. I should get a reward. No, you idiot. That’s how everybody’s supposed to be.
[Brad Shreve]
That’s true. I told you earlier, I had to deal with drugs and alcohol, had to get recovered from that and bipolar disorder. And I kept being told, you’re a fighter. You’re such a fighter. And I just wanted to scream because I’m like, I don’t want to have to fight. And I heard Carrie Fisher say the same damn thing. I said, bless you, Carrie. Bless you. Because it is it gets exhausting to be a fighter, and it gets exhausting.
[Comedian ANT]
I love Carrie. I worked with her on cruise ships, Carrie, and I’ve known her for years, God rest her soul, and fucking funny as hell, that woman. And, yeah, I’ve heard her say that before, too. She didn’t want to be a fighter. Nobody wants this. Nobody wants this. I didn’t want addiction, but it is a disease, and I was I was given it. But you want to know what? God has found a way to turn my mess into my message. And for that, I’m grateful. And that’s where I get to find gratitude.
[Brad Shreve]
And listener, I got to tell you what he said before we turned the recorder on. When I asked him how he’s doing and he talked about how great he was doing, it was clearly sincere. You could see it in his face.
[Comedian ANT]
I am blessed and highly favored.
[Brad Shreve]
I like that. I like that a lot.
[Comedian ANT]
You could use it. Brad, how are you?
[Brad Shreve]
I am blessed and highly favored.
[Comedian ANT]
Wow. And you know how that sounds? Beautiful.
[Brad Shreve]
That’s certainly a lot better than if you told me to yell, I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore. It felt much better, though. Sometimes you do have to say that.
[Comedian ANT]
Is the name Albert Finch?
[Brad Shreve]
Yes.
[Comedian ANT]
AndFaye Dunaway. It was Network, wasn’t it? Yeah.
[Brad Shreve]
Yes, it’s Network. One of the greatest movies ever.
[Comedian ANT]
Ever.
[Brad Shreve]
Absolutely loved it. They had amazing foresight of what was going to happen to TV news. You didn’t just struggle with drugs and alcohol. You later were dealing with weight.
[Comedian ANT]
Still dealing.
[Brad Shreve]
You gained quite a bit of weight. I saw you on The Doctors one time.
[Comedian ANT]
I was 238 pounds. And my niece, because kids will always tell you the truth, said, Uncle, ANT, you look like a tomato wearing a belt. Awful. But kids tell the truth. And you know what? My health was not doing well, and I was probably close to death because I was eating myself to death. And I realized, once again, just like with my alcohol and drug addiction, food is an addiction, too. I had to ask for help, and I went on The Doctors, and they gave- me how do I look?
[Brad Shreve]
You look fabulous. Well, first I got to tell you, I saw when you were first on The Doctors, and then I saw you when you came back after losing everything, and though he looks fabulous. And I got to tell you, right now, you look fabulous.
[Comedian ANT]
Thank you.
[Brad Shreve]
Something I’ve always wondered about. I mean, getting over meth and coke or alcohol, that’s really hard. But when you’re in recovery, it’s out of your life. You’re not seeing it anymore. You don’t have to deal with it. When you’re dealing with food addiction, you can never stop eating. How is that different than the other recovery?
[Comedian ANT]
It’s a base human need to eat, right? And what happens is, when that out of whack, because I wasn’t eating for nutrition or energy. I was eating my feelings. And I don’t even realize that until you get help. And then you’re like, oh, I’m not even hungry, and I’m eating now because I’m having a feeling. And then what happens is, when you get help, they start teaching you to work through your feelings, to invite them in and not push them away and to experience them. And I got to tell you, it sucks. It sucks. But once you learn that you don’t have to run from your feelings and you can experience them, then real change starts to happen. And that’s how I got through it.
[Brad Shreve]
I can say I’m not going to bring alcohol into my house, or I can say I’m not going to walk through MacArthur Park, but I can’t say I’m not going to go to the grocery store.
[Comedian ANT]
But what you can say at the grocery store is, I’m not going to bring Twinkies into my home. You absolutely can do that. You can absolutely say, this broccoli and this celery and the spinach is delicious. I’m going to bring that into my home. You can absolutely do those things, but you don’t have to eat everything. You make choices. So am I choosing this because it’s going to make me feel something, or am I choosing this because it’s good nutrition and it’s good for my body? And I’m not great, believe me. I’m definitely not pious right now because I still have McDonald’s every now and then. I just don’t have it every day like I used to. I don’t eat 15 Cadbury cream eggs every day like I used to. Now I have one, and that’s plenty.
[Brad Shreve]
There are many days or evenings where I’ll be eating and eating and eating, and my husband will say, you’re feeling something. You need to deal with it.
[Comedian ANT]
You need to deal with it. He’s insightful
[Brad Shreve]
Oh, he’s totally got insight.
[Comedian ANT]
Though, Brad, is sometimes dealing with it is just allowing it to come in and having a cup of tea with it. And then when the tea is done, you ask it to leave. What’s? One of the tools I use is I invite feelings to come in and I’ll sit with them for the amount of time it takes to have a cup of tea, and then I’ll say, all right, it’s time for you to go.
[Brad Shreve]
But I think the great thing is that you’re acknowledging it. Of course, the generation before us didn’t do that.
[Comedian ANT]
I don’t think they had the tools.
[Brad Shreve]
I think a lot suffered because of it.
[Comedian ANT]
Yeah. In silence. And they didn’t have the tools. And we’ve got the tools now. Absolutely, we do. Without rain, we wouldn’t have rainbows. And you and I, Queer We Are! are thriving under rainbows love.
[Brad Shreve]
Rainbows and unicorns. After everything you’ve been through. When you’re driving down the road by yourself, what are you thinking about?
[Comedian ANT]
No one’s ever asked me that either. But I love enough. There’s this great little poem, and I don’t know who wrote it, but it says, when you come to the edge of everything you’ve known, one of two things will always happen. You will step onto solid ground, or you’ll be taught to fly. I hope I’ve been taught to fly.
[Brad Shreve]
I’ll tell you. Yes, you have. If I can have that luxury of telling you that.
[Comedian ANT]
You do.
[Brad Shreve]
ANT, wonderful to have you on. I’m so glad I had you as a guest. You’ve been wonderful.
[Comedian ANT]
Brad, what a wonderful, wonderful time I’ve had, too. You’re like the gay Terry Gross from Fresh Air on NPR. That’s the highest compliment I can pay you.
[Brad Shreve]
Well, thank you. I’ll take that as a compliment. In the podcastin world. We base everything on Fresh Air.
[Comedian ANT]
I love her show.
[Brad Shreve]
Thank you. Wonderful compliment. And I’m going to leave on that.
[Comedian ANT]
Queer We Are
