Brad Shreve:
Welcome to Queer We Are, where each week I have conversations with some of the most interesting LGBTQ guests who will lift your spirits through their stories of good works they do, or challenges they overcame, or how they keep a positive attitudes. And some even do all of the above. If you need a feel good show to keep your hopes alive or to help you get it back, then you’re in the right place.
My guest today, Del Shores, showed me LGBTQ movies in a whole new big, bright and beautiful light. Before I came out, I would search for any gay movie I could relate to, but most LGBT movies were depressing. Too much self loathing, and later they all dealt with AIDS. Both are very important subjects. But come on, every film there are films from the some consider classics, and out of fear of getting nasty emails, I won’t name names. But I’m sorry, I hate almost all of them. Then 1982s, making love came out with Harry Hamlin, Michael Ontkean and Kate Jackson. And it blew me away. It was my senior year in high school and I watched it more times than I can count. I watched it recently and the production is not as good as I remember, but that doesn’t change how it impacted me. And like earlier films, there was still a lot of angst.
Things did get better in the mid 1990s. Now, the actors were usually straight, which is okay, but maybe a gay guy now and then. Also, they were fun and humorous, but they didn’t connect with me as far as my identity. One of my all time favorites, The Birdcage, has as many great oneliners as Steel Magnolias. And Robin Williams and Nathan Lane were superb together. Now, granted, I said the actors were usually straight. This was a few years before Nathan Lane did come out. As much as I loved The Birdcage, I had an inability to relate on a deeper level. Then there was 1998. Not only was it the year I came out, we also got the movie Trick. Yeah, it was straight guys again, but it was groundbreaking. It realistically showed gay men like I knew, but it wasn’t a gay movie, for a lack of a better term. By that I mean it was simply a delicious romcom with no other agenda. Now, I thought with Trick, we had reached the pinnacle when the very next year oh, my God. Del short’s, hysterical, Sordid Lives released. Much different and over the top than Trick, but what awesome characters. And those characters that were gay, like Gladly Jordan’s brother boy, they were hysterical. And what made Sordid Lives incredible is the gay characters were funny as hell. But unlike in the past, they were funny and gay and not funny because they were gay. It’s a movie I never get tired of watching. Del and I discuss Sordid lives. We discuss his other films, we discuss his relationship with the great Leslie Jordan. And we also discuss Del’s Foundation, which is doing wonderful things for new artists. So hang on. I’m your host, Brad shreve. And as I said, my guest is Del Shores. And stay right where you are to hear this incredible man, because queer we are.
Del Shores. I want to thank you for being with me today. It is greatly appreciated, and I’m very honored.
Del Shores:
Well, thank you for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this.
Brad Shreve:
Well, I’m going to start out the gate where I think a lot of people would expect me to. And I want to talk about probably your best known production, which is Sordid Lives. And I also want to talk about Southern Baptist Sissies, because I want to compare the two. Now, I’m sure, believe it or not, there are some people that aren’t familiar with Sordid Lives, so can you just give a brief synopsis of that film?
Del Shores:
Well, I love to write the aftermath of a big event, and so I chose the death of this good Christian woman. Peggy Ingram has tripped over her lover’s prosthetic legs in a seady motel room, and her one daughter is trying to cover it up, and the other one is acknowledging what happened to Mama and her needs. And it’s a lot of eccentric Southerners. And meanwhile, the gay grandson is in Los Angeles deciding whether he should come home to his family and come out. And then the institutionalized brother boy, played by the amazing Leslie Jordan, is being de-homosexualized at the same time. So it’s a little bit whacked. And so at the end, they all come together. This journey has been a long journey. It started in 96. It was my coming out play, and then I adapted it to screenplay. We shot it in 99. It opened in film festivals in 2000 and then went to theaters in 2001. The DVD came out in 2003, and the crazy cult phenomenon happened because of it running 96 weeks in Palm Springs. So then spawned a series at Logo in 2008, or nine, I think. And then the sequel, which is the final chapter, A Very Sordid Wedding, came out in 2017. So there you’re all caught up.
Brad Shreve:
There we go. 96 weeks in Palm Springs. That’s impressive.
Del Shores:
It was crazy.
Brad Shreve:
A lot of people in the play followed you into the movie, am I right?
Del Shores:
That’s right. I drugged them into it.
Brad Shreve:
Well, I asked because I noticed you tend to use the same individuals in your plays and in your movies. Now, are they reaching out to you? Are you reaching out to them? Clearly, there is a connection, a bond.
Del Shores:
I’m lazy. I’m not really lazy. They become my family. But there is a part of that where if you hear a certain voice in your head while you’re writing, I think it just adds texture and depth to the character. And so I have a lot of muses. I hear Anne Walker’s voice. I hear Del Dickey’s voice. I heard Leslie Jordan’s voice so much with characters that I would create and I would just return to the well. And I love working with new people, but I also love returning to my family, just like we have our chosen family, right?
Brad Shreve:
It yes, we do. And they are so important. Now, one of the beauties I think of Sordid Lives is your casting. Every single character is perfectly cast. They play their roles beautifully. You mentioned Leslie Jordan, and of course, there’s Olivia Newton John was there, and they’re both no longer with us. And I’m sorry, I know they were both friend of yours, but it’s Olivia Newton John playing Bitsy May Harling. I never would have thought to cast Sandra Dee as a trashy singer in a honky tonk.
Del Shores:
That has bisexual tendencies. Yes, it was such a great journey with Olivia because we’ve talked about olivia and I remained very close, but we were close before we shot the movie. Her sister Rona, who, oddly enough, we were talking about deaths. Rona died ten years ago today. And it was very weird today not to reach out to Olivia about Rona, because now Olivia is gone. And anyway, Rona and I were in an acting class together many, many years ago, became friends. She brought Olivia in 1984 to see my first play, and I was on stage, and I met Leslie in that same theater, same year, and it was really 85. The play opened in 84, but they saw it in 85. And she just became so supportive of my work, and that’s who she was. She loved her friends, and she had a crazy great sense of humor. When I wrote Sordid Lives, she came to the play, and on my birthday one year, she called me and sang to me and asked me what I was doing lately. And I said, I’m writing the screenplay to Sordid Lives, or I’ve just written it, and I’m trying to get celebrities, stars attached to a few roles. And she said, why don’t you let me play that singer and teach me the accent? And I said, Seriously? My superstar friend wants to be in. I said, you know, there’s no money. And she didn’t say it, but I think she really would say was, honey, I don’t need money. Anne Walker, who played Lavanda, recorded all her lines, and she was on tour. She memorized the lines with the accent, and she stepped into the role and did the series with me. And I love her for that because she truly did not make much money.
Brad Shreve:
She just did an incredible job. And I’ve heard many times that that movie is loosely based on your life growing up in Winters, Texas, and I want to get to that. But before we do, I want to talk about Southern Baptist Sissies, which was another stage play that you did that you did a movie that was pretty much a filming of the play.
Del Shores:
It was. It truly was.
Brad Shreve:
And it’s much different.
Del Shores:
Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
Now it’s called a dark comedy. I see it as much more dark than comedy. There’s definitely some humor in it, but when my husband and I watched it, it was beautiful. We laughed, but it was also difficult. And I mentioned that I keep hearing that Sordid Lives is based on your life. Something tells me there’s a lot of you in Southern Baptist Sissies as well.
Del Shores:
Yeah, well, you’re right. My dad was a Southern Baptist minister. My mom was the high school drama teacher. I grew up with those sermons that’s who I heard who I was from those pulpits or who I wasn’t. And who I wasn’t was the person who could have eternal life because I had this deep, dark secret that I was gay. And it was interesting because after I wrote Sordid Lies, before we did the movie, I had started writing Southern Baptistes. And it was a response to a picture that I had seen in a Time magazine article about the killers of Matthew Shepard. And I guess in this interview, they were interviewing one of the girlfriends, and behind them or behind her in this picture, was a picture of Jesus. And I started wondering if those murderers had learned to hate in pews. And I started exploring that, and the first thing I did is I started thinking about the damage that I had. And I’d already written Sordid Lives, so I was pretty much my family was already offended, so I just started writing. And it was a lot of therapy for me, but the first monologue I wrote was that I have a crush. I knew I was in trouble when I had a crush on Jesus.
Brad Shreve:
Well, how could you not? Those incredible abs.
Del Shores:
I know that’s what Mark says. And so when Mark says he had a kind of a swimmer’s build, but then you talk about dark or there was comedy, there was always got to laugh. He had a swimmer’s build. But then it was that turn when he said, you know, can’t have a I can’t be attracted to anybody. Complete what’s that about? And it went into the because I never thought I deserved anyone better. And so a lot of that I’d explored in therapy sessions. And suddenly I was writing about it and I thought, wow, I thought I dealt with this. And I really, truly had not. And so Southern Baptist was very cathartic for me. It was also very scary. I have never opened a play with so much fear as I did Southern Baptist Sissies. Just because you go, lightning is going to strike me, this cannot be a success. And the beautiful thing about Sissies to this day is I get more letters about that play or in that movie than anything I’ve written. Even Sordid Lives because it touches a lot of people who have had religious damage, who have really been hurt in those pews. And the word healing comes up a lot that it was very healing for them. And so I’m very proud of that work. It is truly my favorite child of my body of work, and always will be, I think. I don’t think I can ever write anything that I am as attached to as that piece.
Brad Shreve:
Well, having watched it, it does not surprise me that people are contacting you to tell you that. I’m sure some have said it changed their life.
Del Shores:
It did. I’ve gotten letters that said it saved their lives. And I don’t ever want to sound grand, because my intent to write is, first of all, I I really do want to make you laugh. I want to make you think a little bit sometimes, and I just want to entertain you. And if there’s anything that’s a bonus, then great, and that has truly been a bonus for me.
Brad Shreve:
But there is humor in it. And whereas Sordid Lives is seen as a silly comedy, there is a message in there.
Del Shores:
Yes, there is.
Brad Shreve:
And some darkness and pain.
Del Shores:
Yeah, we talked about Leslie a little bit, and one of the things that was so genius about Leslie’s performances was Leslie was able to, first of all, be completely and 100% authentic, even when it seemed ludicrous. I mean, his performance as Brother Boy is so beautiful and so funny. So funny. But then you get to just these tiny moments where when Wardell rescues him, and you just see the pain in the face. So that was inspirational to me when I wrote and and and, you know, we we collaborated on that that role together, me writing and directing him and him just stepping into those heels and being so brilliant, that Leslie was truly there are very few people in my life that were closer to me than Leslie Jordan. And so I knew all about the clubs that he frequented when he was using and before he got sober, and I knew all those stories. So when I wrote, I wrote Southern Baptists without Peanut and Odette. And then I let him look at it, and he goes, oh, honey, everybody’s just going to slit their wrist, it’s so dark. And he said, you need some humor. And so I went back and I wrote almost like a second play within a play, and then they connected at the end. And then I sent it to him, and he said, well, thanks for exposing the rest of my life to the world. I said, Will you play it? And he goes, well, of course I will. And the beautiful thing about his performance in that play is that moment, that last scene with Andrew, where he says, don’t become me. It is maybe my favorite collaboration with him on anything. And that was all because of him. He literally told me, as I was developing the play in rehearsals already, he said, there’s something missing. I feel that Peanut has to connect with one of those boys. It would be nice if at the end of his life, when he’s lost all hope and he just goes to the bottle if he could encourage one of the sissies in some way. And I went home and wrote that scene. And I always say, the reason Leslie won every theater award available as Best Supporting Actor in this town in Los Angeles was because of that scene, not because of the comedy. We all knew he could do the comedy, but that scene is just heartbreaking, and he’s so authentic and just beautifully drawn.
Brad Shreve:
It’s extremely short, yet it ties everything together. I couldn’t imagine the film without it.
Del Shores:
Yeah, is it crazy? It’s like 1 minute and 21 seconds. Because when Leslie passed away, everybody was asking for that scene. And so I got my friend Emerson Collins to pull it from the movie, and then it went viral everywhere because so many people were aware of him and not aware of Sissy’s, and his death gave it even more profile, which I’d rather have him than that.
Brad Shreve:
Well, I want to say I’ve worked in the hospitality industry, mainly the hotel industry, for decades, and having seen a lot of celebrities, I’ve never been starstruck at all. It’s like, oh, of course I want to take a look. But that’s usually been about it. And then, of course, once I moved to LA. And as a regular thing. But there’s two that really made me step back. One was Shemar Moore, but that’s only because I wanted to jump his bones. The other, you mentioned Leslie being sober. I actually used to see Leslie quite a bit at meetings, and it took everything I had to respect that and know it is not the place, because I so wanted to thank him for his work. And I hear that he’s going to be honored with a star in Palm Springs.
Del Shores:
Yes. I don’t know if you saw on Instagram when I have a star in Palm Springs. That happened, I think, in 2006, after the big craziness of Sordid lives. And then we were on tour there with three of my plays at the Annenberg. But about a year before Leslie passed away, he was in Palm Springs, and he’s like on my Star with a glass of tea, and he’s going, I don’t know why Del Shores has a star and I don’t have a star. And then he just poured the tea over my star and he goes, Oops, anybody got a jackhammer? And so when he passed away a few weeks later, I posted that and said, okay, y’all, it’s time for Leslie to have a star. And the Chamber of Commerce and Pop Springs reached out to me, they said, Sponsor it. Just nominate him. And I did, and they said they had never had more positive response to someone getting a star than Leslie. So Leslie will have left this plane October the 24th, and he actually got sober on October 20, which was my he got sober December 3ish. I mean, he got sober before he got sober October 20, but then he had to go to jail because he got sober. He had gotten arrested in one of those clubs that I wrote about in Sissies and was thrown in jail for more than wasn’t the first time, but that’s when he got sober, because he called me on my birthday and wished me a happy birthday from jail. So I can always remember I was 40 years old. So he would have been sober 23 years. No, I’m 65. 25 years. So, anyway, his star is going to be unveiled October the 20th in Palm Springs, right behind the Rowan in that park. And there’ll be a nice ceremony that I’m hosting on October the 20th.
Brad Shreve:
Well, I think I may take the 90 minutes drive and be there.
Del Shores:
Please do.
Brad Shreve:
I would love to come.
Del Shores:
It’s going to be a great ceremony. We’re going to have a lot of fun people. Mayim Bialik is coming to speak and some of the Sordid folks. So there’ll be some music. It’ll be a wonderful celebration of Leslie.
Brad Shreve:
And we’re going to come back to Leslie and some of your other productions. Before we shift gears, I do want to tell a listener, a lot of you may only know Leslie as Beverly. Leslie on Will & Grace, and he was hysterical. But if you haven’t seen Sordid Lives or even Southern Baptist Sissies, you ain’t seen nothing yet. So check them out.
Del Shores:
Yeah. And they’re all just Google that. People say, where are they? I go, I have this friend named Google. And you just go and you just put Southern Baptistes, put Leslie Jordan, Del Shores, and you will get all our work together, because they’re all out there. They’re on Prime, they’re on Hulu, they’re available.
Brad Shreve:
Do yourself a favor right now. It’s quick, easy, and you won’t miss one second of the show, whether you’re on the phone or on the computer. Look at the app where you’re hearing me now and find the button that says Follow or subscribe and click it. Now, you’ll be notified when a new episode publishes, and you won’t miss a single one.
The reason I want to shift gears real quick is I want to make sure that we talk about the Del Shores Foundation thank you. Which I know you’re very proud of.
Del Shores:
Yes.
Brad Shreve:
And just share with us, what is the foundation? Why did you decide to start it?
Del Shores:
Well, honestly, when my friend Stuart Bell came to me, and he had watched me mentor our good friend Mat Hayes, who works with me as one of my associates on my little tiny team, everybody goes, oh, your team? I go, yeah, my team is three people. Emerson collins and Matt Hayes and me, that’s our team. But Matt wanted to write a short film, and he wrote this beautiful, long, short film called Cognitive, and I helped him get it to shooting form, really. I gave him notes on it, and then he cast me in it as this horrible homophobic pastor. And I mentored him along the way of directing it. And it won so many film festivals. It was so beautifully drawn and so Stewart, my friend Stuart Bell had been a part of helping financially, and he said, Why don’t we start a foundation where you do this for a lot of people? And I said, oh, my God, I’m about to get Medicare. I don’t want to do something else this big. And then I started thinking about it. I started talking to Emerson, and we were all at the same table. And we just figured a way to do it in a rather creative way, where we have a contest every year, and there are three categories. There’s short film, there’s screenplay, and there’s play. And our goal is to help facilitate LGBTQ storytellers, southern storytellers, get their projects made, where they don’t just go in a drawer. They don’t just go I wrote this screenplay when I was 20 years old, and I didn’t pursue it because so many people don’t know how to get momentum with their work. And I wish that I had had a little more help early on, but I did have some help, and I was also in La. And these folks are all in the south. They have stayed there. They fought the fight there. And there’s so many beautiful stories. We just had our second search. We’re about to announce on June the first. You can go to Delshoresfoundation.org, you can donate and help storytellers tell their stories that way, because we’re a tiny organization. Doesn’t take us much to make this happen. But last year’s winner, I’m directing his play here in Los Angeles, so he’s getting his world premiere here, Jigs Burgess. We flew out the screenplay winners, Monèt and Serayah, and they met with Ryan Murphy’s company, Greg Berlanti’s company, A24 agency. And we just give them opportunity to get to the next place in their career. So that’s what we’re doing. And I’m very proud of it. I’m just so happy with it was this little vision and we were able to execute it. And we’re just about to announce our second year winners.
Brad Shreve:
And the link is in the show notes. And I do think you should support it because not only is Del developing these people, they’re going to be the ones that entertain us. So there’s something in it for all of us.
Del Shores:
Thank you for mentioning it, because it is one of my true passions now is having seen the results. And I got to tell you, Brad, when we had our writers conference, because what we do is all the winners and all of the finalists get to come to a Southern city. Last year, it was Dallas, and we congregate. We fly them in, we put them up in a hotel, so they have a weekend of just creative people helping them know what else to do, because you can write, and then you go, what do I do with it? And we have playwrights, and I had Jason Williams, who co wrote Greater Tuna, and that for me. I’m such a fan girl of that franchise. And for me to sit and interview Jason Williams was just an amazing adventure for me. But that’s the kind of people we are bringing in. Jason’s now on our honorary board, and the foundation actually is sponsoring the star out in Palm Springs for Leslie because it Breezes profile, because there was no better Southern storyteller than Leslie Jordan, so he will always be our honorary co chair of the foundation. So anyway, we’re really proud of that work. And if you are a Southern storyteller, keep up with us on the website and submit your short film or your play or your screenplay. You never know.
Brad Shreve:
You’ve had your series of difficult times. Your coming out experience is not the way you would have preferred. You also had some challenges after Sordid Lives: The Series was canceled, yet through it all, you’ve had incredible success. How do you define happiness?
Del Shores:
Well, I think happiness comes and goes, and it depends on the day. I think that when you’re at a really good place in your life, that it’s so helpful. And there have been many of those in my lives, and our lives are hills and valleys. And so, yes, 2009 was not so the series comes out. It’s the number one show ever on Logo until RuPaul’s Drag Race came. And we weren’t treated very nicely, not by Logo, but our producer was stealing money. Our success was not rewarded. I lost my home during that time. But then you go back just a little before that, and I was on Queers Folk for three years, and I was getting all that TV money, and I was happy, and I was in love, or thought I was. And then the divorce happens, and then there’s another downtime. But then your kids graduate from college, and you go, wow, I raised some amazing daughters, so I feel good right now, and that’s what matters today. I’m very happy. I’m in a relationship now for the first time in a long, long time. And he’s a beautiful man. And I don’t mean just physically. He is a beautiful human, and he’s age appropriate. I think we all learn from the past, and hopefully I have learned. I also think, Brad, I don’t know about you, but I mean, we look at the the positives in our lives, and sometimes we look at the negatives, too, and sometimes the negatives create a positive in a weird way. And I have to say that Leslie’s death especially. It made me look at other things, and I thought, well, that’s not that important to be upset over this fill in the blank. That’s really not important at all. So I feel like that happiness sometimes comes besides in waves. It comes with experience. It’s like you go, okay, why did I fret this bullshit? Why did I worry about it? It’s just stupid. Stupid. You think about, oh, my God, the time I went off on that poor lighting designer. Why I’m taking more breaths these days. And I think that helps with happiness.
Brad Shreve:
I agree with you 100%. I’m getting asked, and therefore been doing a lot of inspirational podcasts, because my past has not been the stuff dreams are made of, and they want me to share my story because I see it all today as an adventure. Yeah, I didn’t see it that way at the time, but it’s all a part of who I am today.
Del Shores:
It’s so interesting. I keep going back to him, and I told you I don’t want to talk as much about maybe the healing has started, because I’m feeling like it’s okay to talk about Leslie today. One of the reasons I didn’t want to talk so much about him is because it really just makes me so sad, and it’s reliving the grief again. But on that subject that you just said, because you said that you saw him in recovery rooms. And after my second divorce, Leslie came to me, and he said, I want to take you to an Alanon meeting. And I said, oh, Leslie, I don’t want to go. I just don’t want to go. I’ve been to those Alanon meetings. It’s just like listening to one these pitiful people tell these stories. And he said, you are one of those pitiful people. And I said, oh, okay. So he took me to this Alanon meeting, and it was over there on Robertson, right across from there’s, another little house that they have a lot of AA meetings, but this was across the street, and I remember that
Brad Shreve:
It’s called the Log Cabin.
Del Shores:
Yeah, it’s right across from the Log Cabin. It’s where I would go to my Alanon meetings. And he went with me at first. And the first time I was there, there was this woman, this beautiful African American speaker with this woman who said, how many newcomers are here today? And I raised my hand, and she said, I want to just talk to you for a second, all of you. She said, I know that probably you’re here today because of some darkness in your life or your perception of darkness, but one day you’re going to look back at this period, and you’re going to see that that’s when a ray of light entered. And I didn’t leave with too much more than that that day. But, man, as I looked back at that, what she said was so brilliant and so simple, because that needed. To happen in my life that divorce needed. It was time to weed your garden sometimes, and I don’t want to get all woo and crazy on you here, but in that, I look back and I thought, man, that was new beginnings for me, and not in a negative way. That was new beginnings in a positive way. My work got better. My work ethic got better. The distraction wasn’t there. I learned how to not be such a fucking codependent. There is the line in Southern Baptist, I’m so fucking codependent, when I die, somebody else’s life is going to flash before my eyes.
Brad Shreve:
I love that line.
Del Shores:
Yeah, as do I. Anyway, that’s my little sermon at today.
Brad Shreve:
I’m going to actually make you do another sermon because there’s something I want to know. You and I are very similar in the sense that we were both married. I had a daughter. I was in my mid 30s when I came out.
Del Shores:
I’m not sure what age you were that’s exactly same. 35.
Brad Shreve:
Okay. So we were the exact same age, but our experiences were different. I chose to come out where you were exposed, and that was a difficult time for you. As you said, your father was a Southern Baptist minister. TJ is – there are two especially tragic characters in Southern Baptist. Sissies TJ is one, and he broke my heart. He suppresses who he is, marries, has children, and stays a good church going man. I was feeling more than anyone else, I was connecting TJ with you.
Del Shores:
Well, I have often said that I’m all of them, they’re all me. There’s all a piece of me and all of them. But I guess, yes, that part of TJ’s life up until I was 35. And then there was exposure. There was like, okay, I got busted having a fling. And it was the first time that I had had a fling, even though I’d had many of these thoughts and many of these desires. But then I made the choice. This and I cannot continue to live a lie. And unlike TJ, TJ had to continue to live a lie. He couldn’t come out of it. And you think about the circumstances of his life, the military, dad, he got so far into it, and he did not want to be gay. And that’s where I was at one time. And then I became Mark. I was Mark. I was the storyteller. Mark is much more me in the terms of, like, my mother. Mark’s mother was so my mother where she just had a reason for everything. I love that scene where he’s talking about, well, that’s why we have foreign missionaries, so that everybody she just has an answer. And certainly my questioning about the church came out of my love for the Jewish community and not being gay. And that’s where Mark started first questioning when his teacher was gay. Benny I used to have these horrible nightmares about the rapture, I would hear a loud noise, and I would bolt out of bed thinking that Jesus was going to be bursting through the clouds. And after that play opened, that all went away. And then there was a time in my life where I would go to that church like Andrew and pray, please make it go away. Please make it go away. If you ask anything, God can do it. That’s what we were taught. So they’re all a little bit of me, but good observation, my friend.
Brad Shreve:
I was hesitant to ask that because as a writer myself, people ask, how do you come up with these characters? Which is hard to answer. I’m like, well, it’s part of the little old lady I saw sitting in the corner of Starbucks and part of that man I talked with on the bench. And yet they’re always a part of me, too. So it wasn’t surprising for me to hear you say, yes, I am TJ, and yes, I am Mark, because they reflect two different parts of your life.
Del Shores:
Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
Your characters can be considered stereotypes, and I’m sure you hear that, but I say stereotypes frequently exist for a reason. Maybe they’re exaggerated. But the people in your plays, in your movies, how real are they to you?
Del Shores:
I’m going to just exit frame just for a second to get one of my playbooks because I want to read something to you that addresses this. This is all of my plays. This is Sordid Lives. And it says author’s note. It’s right there at the bottom. These people are real. Don’t play them as cartoons, please. That’s it. And they were all very real to me. And one of my favorite reviews ever of Leslie’s performance is Brother Boy was he approaches the brim without spilling over. And when someone says, These people don’t exist, I go, You’ve never been down to a small town in Texas? Because I get much more it’s mainly critics who have said that, but I get much more of people who go, oh, my God, I know Juanita. She is down at the bar. I know her. My southern is Latrell. I have an aunt, Sissy. I have an Aunt Lavanda. It’s okay, though. Whatever people want to say, that’s okay. It’s like when I look at Rotten Tomatoes and I see that the critics are only 32% of the critics gave Sordid Lives the movie, positive reviews, but 87% of the people gave it a positive review. I’ll take that.
Brad Shreve:
No surprise to me whatsoever.
Del Shores:
Yeah, well, in Sordid Wedding, they finally got good reviews. It’s like up to like 80% something with the critics, but the audience 95%. So I will take the audience over the critics any day.
Brad Shreve:
I couldn’t agree with you more. And there is a funny thing about stereotypes. In my first novel, there’s a Latino character who lives in MacArthur Park, which used to be an upscale neighborhood, and today is a poor immigrant community. And I had a friend read it, and he said, wow, with Ernesto, you captured my family, yet I got a review complaining that I need to watch it with the Latino stereotypes.
Del Shores:
Yeah, right. Didn’t someone leave a cake out in the rain in MacArthur’s Park?
Brad Shreve:
It’s funny you mentioned that. I do describe in the novel the change from MacArthur Park from beautiful to what it is today. And I have a line, someone left a cake out in the rain, and it melted all over the place.
Del Shores:
It’s just messed up. Oh, goodness.
Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Right after I got sober, I was taking a shortcut through MacArthur Park to get to the subway, and I called my sponsor. I said, I’m freaking out. I’m in MacArthur Park. He said, Get the hell out of there right now.
Del Shores:
Do not put yourself in that situation. Oh, my goodness.
Brad Shreve:
Absolutely not. I need to hear something, and I believe the listener does, too. As we discussed earlier, you had your share of challenges. You had your divorce, and yet you persisted. You had the troubles after your TV series was canceled, leading to your home being foreclosed on, and yet you bounced back. I guess I can’t say how much you’ve bounced back, but you’re here.
Del Shores:
It’s not a bad place I’m living in. I’m okay. Yeah, I’m okay.
Brad Shreve:
Good. But we know the political climate going right now. And listen, today, that the day that we’re recording. This is the day that Rond DeSatan has announced he’s running for presidency, which is no surprise to anyone. And I don’t want to go into the rest of the political climate, because we all know what it is. But I read your Twitter posts, and, boy, are you angry, as many of us are. Yet you continue to write, and you’ve started actually, especially you started your foundation. So something is keeping you going. There has to be hope, or you would just stop.
Del Shores:
Well, it’s not just the hope. It’s that what you’re saying. I love what you’re saying, because it’s not just my Twitter feed. It still is reflected in my work, whether I stand on stage with a mic or whatever. It’s the one thing we just had this sort of little tricity fundraising. We went to Atlanta, Birmingham in Nashville. And I said this I said art changes minds. It changes hearts and minds. And it’s the one way if I can do it with humor, if I can just slip a little humor, think about Sordid lives, think about okay, yes, it is a gay movie, but boy, did it go wider than that, because people identified with the humor and the characters. And so if you can do that, I don’t know how not to continue this voice that I have and these opinions, as you see on Twitter, I have to. I am required to. It’s my obligation. And Keri Lake blocked me yesterday on Twitter, so I had a really good day.
Brad Shreve:
I saw that and it made me laugh. Yet I hate it when people feel they must one up someone. But unfortunately, it was after Donald Trump was banned, but I said something and I was blocked by Eric Trump.
Del Shores:
Oh, I’ve never gotten blocked by a Trump. I would love that.
Brad Shreve:
I wear it as a badge of honor.
Del Shores:
Oh, my God, I have so many. I mean, Scott Baio blocked me. Travis Tritt blocked me. I have a whole list of them. Corey Lewandowski blocked me. Piers Morgan blocked me. Kirstie Alley – rest her, she blocked me before her death.
Brad Shreve:
Well, having seen your post, none of that surprises me, and good on you. So the last thing I want to ask before I say goodbye is what is an insult that you have received that you’re proud of?
Del Shores:
I guess one of my favorite things that was so clever that someone did, and I have no idea what it was that they were mad at me about because there’s a plethora of things that I have said and someone created a meme and put it up on Facebook that said, Del Shores Asshole of the Year. And I was just so proud of that because I was thinking, man, there’s so many people who could have you think about who could have been more of an asshole than me, but I won. In this man’s eye, I won asshole of the Year. So I think that he meant that as an insult. I was so proud.
Brad Shreve:
Out of all the assholes and you’re the top, you should have that the wallpaper on your desktop.
Del Shores:
I had it in one of my shows at one point where one of my comic friends was opening for me, and in the middle of the show, he just interrupted my set and he goes, Del, we have good news. You have just been awarded asshole of the Year. So I’d show the meme.
Brad Shreve:
Well, Del, I’m going to have the link to your website, certainly going to have the link to the foundation and listener. If you want to learn more about Del that you can also find it on my website and the other links there as well. So, Del, again, it has been an honor. I am so thrilled that you have been my guest today.
Del Shores:
How much fun was this? I really enjoyed this. I have a list every day of things to do. I still have like three or four things, but I am so happy to take a break in the middle of my day and go, I used to do a daily list. Now I do three day list, so I could just give myself a little time to procrastinate.
Brad Shreve:
There you go. That’s smart. And I’m glad to hear I was a break in your day.
Del Shores:
You are a wonderful break. Thank you so much.
Brad Shreve:
Thank you.
Yeah, I’m on most social media, got to keep up with friends and family you know. But where you’ll find me hanging out most is Instagram. Sure, I post about this podcast sometimes, but who wants to follow an account? That’s all commercials, right? I have more fun sharing posts or reels with good thoughts, opinions, humor, or on a good day, all of the above. To find me on Instagram, search for @thebradshreve or you can just make your life easy and click the link there in the show notes. See you on Instagram.
