These transcripts are computer generated and unedited
Brad Shreve:
This is Queer We Are. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a place where the history of LGBTQ plus people in America was preserved? A place where people can learn about the events and people we know of In the events and people that don’t get enough attention. A place where in these turbulent times, young people can find hope from those who were here before us. Imagine a place no. I’m not gonna go on. If you read the show notes, you know where I’m going with this. Ben Garcia with the American National LGBTQ plus Museum is my guest today. A space, as their website says, will be vibrant and welcoming, both visually and cognitively for the entire LGBTQ plus community.
And I’m glad I wrote cognitively down phonetically because I finally got it right. Here in Queer We Are, we may bring up those things you hear and see in breaking news, but we don’t stay there because we all need a break. My guests talk about what they’re doing to make things better, how they’re keeping the faith, or maybe they’re just here to entertain us. The goals of the American National LGBTQ plus Museum are not small, and they have the support of the New York Historical Society, And they have received funding from the city of New York, the state of New York, and they’ve gotten federal funding, and they have received support from organizations across the USA, and they project as many as 250,000 visitors. So hang tight because you’re gonna hear all about it. I’m Brad Shreve, and my guest is Ben Garcia, and queer we are.
Ben Garcia, before I say anything else, I wanna thank you for all you do and all the others working to launch the American National LGBTQ Museum.
Ben Garcia:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here with you, Brad, and really excited to be part of this podcast, which has just done so much good for the community.
Brad Shreve:
I have been to the LGBT Historical Society’s Museum in San Francisco’s Castro, And I have enjoyed it. It’s a great museum, but you are taking on 1 hell of a project. And let’s start with the big and what may be the lengthy answer. Tell us about the museum and what your plans are.
Ben Garcia:
Absolutely. We are joining the Geobie Historical Society, Stonewall All National Museum and Archives in Fort Lauderdale to be a site and a space for interpreting American history Through the lens of LGBTQ plus lives. Our plan has 3 parts to it. We’re going to open in late 2026 A space in New York City. We’re partnering with an American history museum in the city called the New York Historical Society. They’re building a new edition And we’ll occupy the 4th floor that new addition with our physical museum. We’ll share classroom space with them. Wow.
Ben Garcia:
Event space We’ll do changing exhibitions there and that will be a place to come and see an exhibition that is an overview of American LGBTQ plus history. The 2nd part of the plan is to create a series of Traveling exhibitions because as important as it is to have a home base in New York, we want to make sure that if you’re living in San Antonio or Kansas City or Juneau Alaska you can go to your local history museum and see queer histories interpreted there And so we’re going to be creating 8 traveling exhibitions, some of them designed to go to history museums, Some of them designed to go to LGBTQ plus community centers. The 3rd part of the plan is to create our virtual museum. So if you’re living around the world or in anywhere in the country where you haven’t the full experience of liberation, You can connect to our site and learn the true histories of LGBTQ plus Americans. And that’s going to be something that will help young people, help families, help educators, help people around the world Who want to understand more about our lives need to know that we’ve been part of all Cultures and all communities for as long as there have been people and also have the experience of some really fun and engaging Content and activities online. So those are the 3 ways in which we are developing and we’ve already started with public programs that we do in partnership with other LGBTQ plus organizations. We are launching our 1st traveling exhibition That we’re doing a partnership with Lambda Legal this November in New York. And it will travel to 5 cities around the country in 2024.
Ben Garcia:
So we’re doing that work already and we’re doing all the planning and the development of the other exhibitions that will show up in New York and travel around to museums beginning in 2026.
Brad Shreve:
While that’s a much bigger undertaking than I expected, I knew that you were gonna have a traveling exhibit. I didn’t know there were gonna be would you say 5 of them?
Ben Garcia:
We are aiming to do 8 of them Because they are going to be.
Brad Shreve:
Okay.
Ben Garcia:
Yeah. 8 of them and they’re going to be different sizes, small ones to go to LGBTQ community centers, Medium sized ones for historical societies and museums and then a couple of larger ones for bigger museums. We’re talking to a group of natural history museums, for example, About a large exhibition that will explore queer expression in gender and in same sex Relationships in other species and beings around the planet.
Brad Shreve:
I absolutely love that because many years ago, I lived in Omaha, Nebraska, which it doesn’t have a very large LGBTQ community. It’s bigger than most people would think it is because if you live in farm country and don’t wanna move all the to Kansas City, you end up in Omaha, but it’s still not very big. And Had the AIDS Quilt not been brought to Omaha, I never would have seen it. And my God, I’ll never forget that experience. So seeing and hearing that your exhibits are gonna be traveling to areas like that, I’m thrilled. It’s much needed, so thank you for doing that. Now your location at the historical museum, which I think It’s wonderful, and I wanna find out how that happened. It’s gonna start with 4,000 square feet.
Brad Shreve:
Is that correct?
Ben Garcia:
That’s right. Our core exhibition We’ll be in a dedicated space on the 4th floor of a new wing that they’re building and that’s a 4,000 square foot space. So it’s a good amount of space, not nearly big enough to tell the full and complete story of LGBTQ Americans, but we’ll be able to using video and other media, we’ll be able to layer that experience So that we can tell a big story even in what is effectively a medium sized space.
Brad Shreve:
But your plan is I mean, you kinda have in the books, I don’t know if you have the dates, to be much bigger than that.
Ben Garcia:
So, you know, we’re looking at this plan with New York Historical as The place that we start. We did some early research and planning around a freestanding museum That would be closer to 70,000 square feet all told, with about 40,000 square feet of gallery space. So 10 times as big. As you can imagine, that’s really the scale needed to be a comprehensive museum of American LGBTQ plus history. But new york historical society and we found this wonderful relationship it’s a great way for us to start As an organization and we’ll have that dedicated space. We’ll also work with them to create exhibitions of You know 1 to 3000 square feet that will pop up in other galleries around their museum. And then the plan is to work with other museums around the city and around the country to create exhibitions so we can still have 40,000 square feet of museum They’ll just be spread across the country instead of all in 1 place. That’s how we came up with the plan to create so many traveling exhibitions.
Brad Shreve:
That still is quite the undertaking whether it’s in one place or not, and, I’m gonna do this a little earlier than I normally do. Folks, in order then for them to do that, They’re gonna need some money. So at the end, I’ll give you how to donate to the museum. I’m sure Ben won’t complain at all if you do.
Ben Garcia:
Absolutely not. You’re right. When we try to make it easy and you know we’ve actually done something really fun. We really want everyone who is inspired To really be able to make a meaningful gift to the museum. And so we have our inaugural membership. If you’re a founding member of the museum, It’s just $6 a month. $72 a year. And if you’d make a donation of any size including that membership Your name will be on the wall of the museum when you arrive and come visit in 2026.
Ben Garcia:
So it’s not just going to be For the donors of 1,000 or 100 of 1,000 or 1,000,000 of dollars, every single person in our community who makes a gift of any size between now and when we open We’ll see their name on the wall in the museum.
Brad Shreve:
I’m thrilled that it’s not just those who give 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars because not all of us can afford to do that. So That’s wonderful, and I want my name there. So you’ve already sold me. No problem there. Queer ER is sponsored by Help You Better. Join the billions seeking online therapy who have reached out for a helping hand and Nah. Just kidding. Who needs to hear another podcast advertising? Those guys.
Brad Shreve:
This show is brought to you by the new Queer We Are Shop, the LGBTQ plus Lifestyle Emporium, dozens of items available from T shirts, sweatshirts, coffee mugs, Wall art and so, so much more to come at queer we are shop .com. Support this show with an LGBTQ owned business that will allow you to let your colors fly. A convenient link for you in the show notes, where we are shop.com. So what was the genesis? What was the seed that got this going?
Ben Garcia:
There have been a number of attempts to start a project like this over the years. Our founding board members got together and started this project in 2017. That included Folks who had been longtime members of the movement, advocates, activists Who had been thinking about the fact that we need to better document and present this history for future generations. And so those founding board members got together in 2017, incorporated the museum, Raise some money to do some early planning, did the work of establishing ourselves as a 501c3, and then hired me In early 2022, like about a year and a half ago, to build the team and to move us forward With all of the fundraising and the development work. So it’s been I think at this point 6 years in the making. We have a wonderful board, about half of it are folks who have been part of the fight for LGBTQ plus equality, whether it in advocacy organizations, in political organizations, in activist organizations, And the other half have been working in the cultural sector, in political fundraising, in Philanthropy. And they’re just a remarkable group of people. We wanted to make sure that the board reflected Did our community.
Ben Garcia:
And so the board is majority people of color. It reflects the full spectrum of gender Identity and expression. And we just wanted to make sure that the right people were around the table so that we would tell The broadest and the most inclusive and the most representative version of the history that we want to present.
Brad Shreve:
Now in addition to the New York Historical Society, you have had a lot of backing from the city of New York City itself. Has that been difficult or I mean, I saw the mayor at your groundbreaking.
Ben Garcia:
Yeah. The city has been incredibly supportive. Both the administration the last 2 administrations, the de Blasio administration and now the Adams administration, each of them Contributed $10,000,000 toward the construction of the building. The city council in the last Iteration and in the current has been incredibly supportive as well. The city has been A huge investor in this new building because of our museum, and we just couldn’t be luckier to be doing it with those partners. The state of New York also came in this year with a $12,500,000 gift toward the building. And then even the federal government, Jerry Nadler, Congressman Nadler was able to secure $3,000,000 for the museum in the last Congress.
Brad Shreve:
None of that is some change.
Ben Garcia:
Absolutely not. No. I mean, you know, to build a new building in New York is really a shocking Cost. I moved here from Columbus, Ohio and I’ve had to get used to it. But you know we’re really lucky to have a really great LGBTQ plus caucus On the city council and to just have so many allies in the city, both in the administration and on the council.
Brad Shreve:
And your website lists a number of reasons and studies that you did as to why New York City was the choice. Can can you tell the listener why?
Ben Garcia:
Yeah. You know, we ended up selecting New York As the site because New York has the largest number of LGBTQ plus people Who are residents and the largest number of LGBTQ plus visitors from around the world of any city in the country. So we felt like it was a natural place to situate this museum. There’s such important history that’s happened all over the country. There are many locations that could have been selected because of their importance to the movement. But New York just happens to have That mix of visitors and residents that will really allow us to sustain this museum.
Brad Shreve:
And on top of that, the tremendous amount of support that you got from New York City.
Ben Garcia:
Well, yeah, so all the support from the city, and then, of course, there’s a particular, You know, part of the history that is so meaningful to so many people in New York, whether it’s the LGBTQ cue members of the Harlem Renaissance or the events at Stonewall or you know the genesis of act up during the AIDS epidemic There are just a number of chapters of queer history that originated in New York that also give us Plenty of local content to present at the museum.
Brad Shreve:
Thank you for mentioning the Harlem Renaissance. I mean, Everybody knows Stonewall, and it’s obviously an important part of history, but that tends to be what everybody thinks about New York. And the Harlem Renaissance was it can’t be forgotten. Can’t be forgotten. Too many people don’t know enough about it.
Ben Garcia:
Yeah, absolutely. We’re going to be working within your historical society And hopefully the Schomburg Library in Harlem to create an exhibition. George Chauncey, the historian, is pulling it together With a number of advisers on a number of LGBTQ plus figures from the Harlem Renaissance as part of the 100th anniversary The Harlem Renaissance in 2020 in 2025. That’s awesome.
Brad Shreve:
So what are your plans to make The museum enticing. I mean, just having it is enticing, but is there something more that you have planned?
Ben Garcia:
We’re having those conversations right now. We are in the process of selecting our creative partners For the museum. And those are the people who will help us develop, you know, select the stories that we tell, Figure out how we’re going to tell those stories, whether it’s through an exhibition or through a public program or through a digital experience, Who will help us create the videos and the films and the audio experiences that people have in there who will do the design of the space. Our plan is to create a space that reflects the spirit of LGBTQ plus creativity. Queer people have had an outsized influence in the creative sectors and we want to make sure that when you come into the museum You really feel, hear, see evidence of that. So we are going to make sure that that environment is immersive, That our exhibitions are very profound but also reflect the joy the humor of our community the resilience of our community and the incredible creativity around things like Music and the performing arts and fashion and design. So you know the plan is to do Five different things with our exhibitions. One of them is to tell the story of the LGBTQ plus movement for equality all over the country and what that looked like and what has succeeded and what we’re still working on.
Ben Garcia:
The second thing is To talk about the contributions of LGBTQ plus people in all sectors of society in all periods of history. The third thing is to focus on those places in the country where LGBTQ people are Still under attack or under threat. Sadly, that’s more and more places. But we want to make sure that people come to this exhibit, Learn about the past but also learn about how to step up in the present and advocate for those who are in difficult situations. And then the final thing is we want to make sure we’re creating a space Of memorialization and commemoration so that you can come and find a memorial and contribute a name to or multiple Pull names to a space that is there to remember those people in our community who have passed on, who either died because of the fear and ignorance of society at the time who died because of the neglect of the health care system Who died after a long and happy and productive life and we just miss them. We want a space where we remember and honor our ancestors and those people on whose Shoulders we stand. So this museum is going to have an emotional journey that touches all the emotions and it’s going to have a creative environment that is made by LGBTQ plus designers set decorators artists In all different areas.
Brad Shreve:
Listeners, a couple years off or a few years off, but it sounds to me like when you go there, you better have your tissues ready To wipe those eyes. And as far as the parts of the country where they’re becoming more and more Unfriendly to the queer community. It’s good to see that you’re going to be going to those areas because they need to be reminded that we’re here, we always have been, And we ain’t going anywhere, no matter how much they try to erase us.
Ben Garcia:
That’s exactly right. I think that, You know, part of what has happened over the past 50, 60 years as we have steadily taken on Advocacy on behalf of our legal rights and been successful in many instances and as the culture has opened up more and more to Queer people in queer lives. We were not at the same time ensuring that Places where people learn history, places where people learn about us, we’re rooting that Content into the curriculum. So whether that’s in schools or in museums or in any place where people go to learn We needed to make sure that our lives were being taught in the right way, that our histories were part of American history curriculums. And so one of the things that we’re doing is trying to make sure that at least in this museum and at least in museums around the country Young people and people of all ages will come. Families will come and see LGBTQ histories and stories Alongside all the others, museums really have this power to impact hearts and minds in a way that Books and schools sometimes don’t, and we’re just trying to take full advantage Of the power of museums and the magic of museums to make sure that people start getting used to seeing Queerness, whether it’s in your local Natural History Museum, your local state history museum, your local African American History Museum, your local Jewish History Museum. We want people to see queer stories in all of those spaces because, of course, one of the beauties Of our community is that we exist in every community.
Brad Shreve:
Well, let’s talk about Ben. And I know you’ve got an incredible background, as far as you’ve been working for numerous museums. And I know you were an educator and administrator for the Getty Museum, which I got to tell you, I cannot see a Van Gogh painting without crying, so I think the Getty is heaven on earth. Give us your background. Give us your resume. How
Ben Garcia:
did you get this
Brad Shreve:
position, which sounds like it’s well deserved?
Ben Garcia:
Well, thank you. I hope so. The proof will be in the pudding. I have worked in museums for the past about 23 years. So in my twenties, I worked more in social services and the show social sector doing social work and training people Either in an art practice to help them counter the burnout of working with victims of violence or training families To bring intellectually disabled people into their home as part of their family. And so it was only in my thirties that I began working in museums but I’ve Worked in a number of museums in law in California and in Ohio before coming to New York. I’ve worked in a couple of anthropology museums where my work was focused on a justice issue that many people aren’t very aware of in museums Which is the issue of returning the belongings and actually the bodies of Native American individuals and communities 2 present day tribes. Lots of archaeologists and historians and anthropologists dug up American Indian cemeteries for for many decades And move those bodies to museums without consent or without permission.
Ben Garcia:
And now museums especially anthropology And certain history museums are returning those for reburial because we all recognize that that was a violation of their sovereignty and their humanity. So I worked in that space for about 10 years and one of the things that that did was really helped me think about museums As places where we care for our dead, where we care for the legacies, and in some cases, the literal Bodies of our ancestors. And so as I consider this opportunity, I thought back to That work that I done as a young person to try to create spaces that were safe and welcoming for people who We’re struggling with intellectual disabilities to create spaces that were safe and healing for people who are working with victims of violence and to help museums become more accountable And really to center the lives and the humanity of living communities by Being responsible for and caring for the legacies of the dead. And so in this job, all of those pieces come together. I’ve been the deputy director of a museum system that had 58 historic sites and museums and 250 staff. I’ve been the deputy director at a small university anthropology museum with a team of 20 people And everything in between. And in all of those places, the through line has been Trying to make sure that the people who haven’t traditionally felt welcome in museums felt more welcome. Trying to make sure that the stories and the things we were doing in the museum reflected a broader set of lived experiences And trying to make sure that those museums were caring for the legacies of our ancestors and helping people In rising generations connect to the wisdom of those who’ve come before us.
Brad Shreve:
And you’ve been doing great works For it sounds like from the beginning as far as your social work and everything else goes. But I’m curious. Did little Ben say, I want to work in a museum one day.
Ben Garcia:
So I have a story that I told in my interview. There are sort of 2 moments as a young person Where museums were hugely impactful to me. When I was 9 years old, I came to the American Museum of Natural History in New York With my class on a field trip. And I had this moment when we walked Into at that time the Hall of Gems, which at that time was this sort of dark, Magical huge cavernous space carpeted on every surface with these sort of lay these Conversation pits and lots of small little chambers filled with these glowing gems Because the way they lit it was they just lit the gems but they kept the space dark. And so you walked in and you felt like you had entered some magical mysterious world and as a 9 year old I had this feeling that I just wanted To live in that world, to stay in that world. I was a kid who looked for fairies when I was outside in the woods. I was a kid who was always on the lookout for Those magical spaces, those liminal spaces between our world and other possibilities. And for me at 9 years old, the Natural History Museum was absolutely that.
Ben Garcia:
Flash forward to when I was 14 and Not yet out of the closet living with my very lovely, very large family. I have 6 siblings and 2 parents. We were sort of your typical Latina family, always talking over each other, always in each other’s business. And so as a closeted kid, I didn’t have many places where I could go and just be on my own or be by myself. One day when I was 14, I was living in a suburb of New York, and I came into the city for the first time on my own. And my The nation was a museum. My mom was doing her undergraduate degree in art history, and she told me about the Frick Museum, which is housed in a mansion on Fifth Avenue. And I remember walking up to that museum on my own feeling very grown up and very sophisticated and going in And it’s this beautiful space.
Ben Garcia:
It’s a again, a magical space for a kid with an imagination to walk into a mansion and to be able To be there was incredible. And one thing that happened was I walked around the corner and I saw a portrait Of an Italian nobleman, a young man who was probably about my age 14 or 15 and I fell head over heels in love with him. And I just remember walking back and forth in front of that painting not wanting people to sort of recognize what was happening for me But also not wanting to go away from this like image of this young man who I just fell head Head over heels with and I remember taking the train home that night and it was February and it was raining and I’m taking the train sort of past these Housing developments and small houses going back to to where we lived outside of the city and back to sort of the chaos of my family and back to 5 more years in the closet but the smell of the wood paneling and the warmth of that place Was etched in sort of my spirit, and I felt like something opened up in my heart that on that train trip home and on that trip generally, I could imagine what life as an adult might be like what life as a queer adult might be like. And for me It was about the freedom of New York City and about the magic of a museum. And so museums for me have had this power. And even though in my twenties, I wasn’t working in museums. As soon as I got my 1st museum job, I knew that this was going to be the sector that I would stay in
Brad Shreve:
the rest of my life. It sounds magical.
Ben Garcia:
Being queer is magic. I mean And museums are magical spaces, and I think our goal is to just make sure everyone can walk in and experience that magic.
Brad Shreve:
So you made me curious. You come from a big family just like I did, 7 kids of my family just like yours, and you’re from the Midwest. So I’m curious, what was your coming out experience like?
Ben Garcia:
I didn’t come out until I went to college. So I went to A state college in Massachusetts and it was in Amherst Mass and the town next door was North Hampton Mass. This was in the late 80s so 8 1987 Northampton famously at that moment was featured in the National Enquirer with the headline Lesbianville USA And so there were a lot of queer women working at UMass because of its proximity and Umass Amherst was actually the 1st university that had a staff position for LGBTQ plus students. And so I came out there in my freshman year, my very 1st semester, in part because it was such a welcoming and inclusive environment for it. It was very scary for me. You know, I wasn’t quite ready to come out when I did. And I immediately found this incredibly Part of community in that place. And I was so lucky that it was that moment that it was that university and that part of the country, in that part of the state that I was in.
Ben Garcia:
And so I was really raised as a young gay man by A pretty separatist group of lesbians. And it was great. I couldn’t have gotten a better Sort of early education about queerness and really frankly about the sort of misogyny that existed among so many gay men at that time. And so I feel like I was raised right by these wonderful, generous Queer women who were living in that area and working at UMass. And that was, you know, also the moment when ACT UP was At its height and so for me the the spirit of the queer rights of act up and of the LGBTQ plus Activist movement, the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, as it was called at the time, was really what You know, influenced me. I was at the perfect age to get sort of activated, and I became I became a young activist on campus.
Brad Shreve:
I have lesbian friends that I think would love to move to lesbian ville. They’re like, I’m all for that. Now some people think the LGBTQ world is going to shit at this time. And if you look at the news and see some of the things that are going on, it’s understandable and there are certain areas that are. You can’t deny the setbacks but a lot of good things that people are missing in the news, etcetera. So I’m curious. What keeps you motivated? Why are you so optimistic and working with dozens of others To open a museum, how do you keep the faith?
Ben Garcia:
I feel incredibly lucky To be working in this job and on this project at this moment because The speed with which the right has mobilized and rolled out these anti Trans anti gender non conforming anti LGBTQ plus laws and bills and initiatives Has been horrifying. And if I weren’t able with my job to be part of Pushing back against that, I think I would feel very powerless. I’m hoping that this museum will do a couple of things. It will inspire people and help people to not feel powerless in the face of attacks. It will give people historical context, Show them that we have been in equally bad and sometimes worse situations in the past and we have Persevered that our the resilience of our community is incredible and that what it has taken is for people to find ways to engage in the fight. For some people, that’s a very in your face way. For some people, it’s working within systems. For some people, It’s doing things like creating culture and art and spaces like museums where we can recharge And be inspired.
Ben Garcia:
So, you know, this museum is not just gonna document our history. It’s gonna be part of the movement for LGBTQ plus equality because museums are in that Space of changing hearts and minds like culture and that’s the role that will play. We need people doing all kinds of things. We need people protesting. We need people voting. We need people, you know, campaigning and stuffing envelopes. We need people Helping people and and sheltering people who are being attacked and we need people creating spaces where families and Young people and people of all ages can go to recharge and to Learn what worked for people in the past, then apply that learning to the future.
Brad Shreve:
Well said. And listener, This is Ben Garcia. He is with the American LGBTQ plus Museum. And, Ben, if they want to donate, and I hope they do, Where can they go?
Ben Garcia:
The easiest way to become part of this project is to go to our website. It is American LGBTQ Museum .org. Just go into your browser and put in American LGBTQ plus Museum will pop up. There’s a button there right on the landing page that says give and you can become A member at just $6 a month or $72 a year, you can give us a gift of any size and you can look at all the ways in which you can get involved. Join our mailing list. It means a lot to us if you just sign up to get our communications because we’re trying to build the awareness and try to spread the word. So go to our website. You can check us out.
Ben Garcia:
You can give us money. You can sign up to get our communications and you can Stay updated with all the progress.
Brad Shreve:
And I gotta say, it’s not just on your landing page. Listen to these folks, we’re smart. That give button is on every page on the website as it should be. And I will have that link in the show notes as well as, some of the social media links that, you sent to me. And, Ben, I want to thank you so much for being my guest, and thank you for all that you do. This is great.
Ben Garcia:
Thank you so much, Brad. Really appreciate it.
