Transcripts

Transitioning 101: Embracing True Identity

December 4, 2023

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Transcripts are computer generated and unedited.

Don’t miss what’s coming up in just a few minutes with the delightful Wendy Cole. After this, I’m taking some time off for the holidays, but I will be back next year. So look for where we are when it returns on Tuesday, January 2nd. Enjoy this episode, and whichever holiday you Choose to celebrate, or if none at all, I hope you find this season jolly.

Needless to say, transitioning for a transgender person is a huge step. Trans or not, most of us would imagine those who choose to have gender affirming surgery have to make a difficult decision. But before a person chooses to dress and what society deems is or is not appropriate or before they choose to have surgery, There’s something they must do first that is critical. Be in the right frame of mind.

My guest, Wendy Cole, shares her experience transitioning at the age of 65. Now she assists others through the process, and we deep dive into that during our conversation. I found Wendy fascinating, and I learned a thing or two, and I think you will too. So let’s just get right to it. I won’t make you wait, and you don’t have to go anywhere because I’m Brad Shreve, and my guest is Wendy Cole, and queer we are.

Wendy Cole, I think it’s fantastic that you’ve dedicated your life to helping others like yourself transition to live their authentic life. But it wasn’t so easy for you to reach that point, was it?

Absolutely not. I knew from a very early age that I was different. Before age 4, around 3 4, I knew. I didn’t put words around it. I couldn’t really do that. I didn’t have the verbal knowledge to do that, but I enjoyed playing with my my mother would take me when she went to go visit her friends, and most of her friends had daughters. And I had a really good time enjoying playing with the other little girls. As I started to get a little bit older, I started to realize, well, You know, this was, different.

I didn’t enjoy playing with the little boys. I Would much prefer to be with the girls. And as things began as I began to grow older, Very early on, someone had given me a doll, and that was my favorite toy. I was probably around 4 or 5 years old at that time, and my father came home one day from work, took it away from me, and gave me a teddy bear. I screamed. I got spanked. And, the next Today, I had taken my paper scissors and, cut up teddy. I didn’t want him.

And, my mother told me, well, wait until your father comes home. In the 19 fifties, that’s what parents did. Your mothers did that. Wait until your father comes home. He came home with another teddy. I screamed. I got spanked. Okay.

This is not working out to be too good for me. So I stuck with Teddy, and I gave up on Dolly. That was my 1st cue that something was different and something was wrong with me pursuing that. By age 10, I guess, or somewhere thereabouts, you You know, when you start to change, I felt my body changing. Things were not good. Things were happening that I did not enjoy. So I finally got I couldn’t take it anymore. I was kind of in a bad place, and I dressed up in some of my mother’s clothes.

I put on makeup. I did my nails. She was grocery shopping, and I waited for her to come home. She came home, And I told her, I’m a girl. She said, you have to get out of that. I said, no. I’m a girl.

May I ask what year this was?

That was somewhere around 1958, 59.

Wow. That’s not today, but that time, especially.

Oh god. Yes. So well, that’s how powerful this feeling was. She had a clothespin, bag hanging on the clothesline outside the, back door, and It was in the shape of a dress all sewn up and everything. I used to wish that could be my dress. I I sum it up very nicely in that Gender is in your mind, in your brain, not in your plumbing. So I was ultimately taken to a psychiatrist. There was the Craig House.

It was a psychiatric center. A lot of celebrities From New York City went there, for various conditions and drying out and things like that. And they took me there, and we sat with the psychiatrist, and that was the first time I heard this. Oh, it’s just a little, transvestism. It’s too early in his life to diagnose it as transsexualism. I had no idea what either one of those terms really was.

Well and transvestism was used for everything from drag queens to to It it was the catchall.

Exactly. Exactly. And the the word transgender hadn’t even been invented yet.

Yeah. And I don’t think I ever hear the word transvestism of news anymore.

I haven’t either, but I’ll touch on this in a little bit, but the term transsexual is coming back into vogue. And I’ll talk about that a little bit when you want to.

I just that was the first time I ever heard from a psychiatrist. Talking to my parents, I said no. I’m a girl. He looked at my parents and said, well, when he has a Career. He has a a house and a wife and a family. He’ll forget all about being a girl. And I said, no. I won’t.

I was taken from the room. I went back to the waiting room, And, someone stayed there with me, and they had an my parents and the psychiatrist had a chat. We had 5 sessions. Most of the sessions were with my parents. And at the end of The last session, which turned out to be the last. I didn’t know at the time. In the backseat of the car, we’re going home. My mother turns to me and says, You will have to stop insisting that you’re a girl.

You’ll have to change your thoughts, change your mind. And if you don’t, We’re going to commit you, and you’ll be fixed. Well, in the late 19 fifties, being committed and fixed Scared the hell out of me. I had no idea what that meant. In hindsight now, it probably means electroshock therapy or something Dastardly like that. And, so I went into repression And hiding and hiding my secret. I didn’t enjoy things like Little League. My Father was very upset with me because I refused.

I argued. I didn’t wanna go. I hated the uniforms. They were itchy, scratchy, Playing in a, a dusty baseball field with other boys didn’t appeal to me at all. And On top of which, I was terrified of being hit by the ball.

I wanna I wanna stop you for a second because you kinda on something that jumped out at me. I was I believe it was on your YouTube channel. And because I definitely wanna get more into your story. I think it’s great that you’re helping others. I wanna get more into your story, but you said something you’re making me think of right now as you’re telling the story.

On YouTube, you said, I am not a trans woman. Now you live for a male for the most part until you were 67. Mhmm. Or I think 65, and then you transition to 67.

So as part of this explanation, how can you not be trans? Explain what that means.

Well, I will. I believe that, The condition that I was born with, whatever it’s called, transgender is what it’s called, medically by WPATH and the medical profession in general. Before 2012, It was considered a psychological condition with no treatment and no cure, and it really didn’t have a name back in the last Century. Since in this century, it’s gained the name transgender. Okay. I’m fine with that. But I identify and always have identified as a girl, now a woman, and female. I’ve totally accepted that as my gender identity.

I don’t believe that transgender is A gender identity. It is a condition that you are born with and that’s it. That’s my feeling on it. That’s my belief. I know there are people within the community that do identify as transgender, and they consider that to be their gender identity. I simply don’t.

And I gotta say, I really liked that when I heard it because when when I heard you say that, I thought, you know what? Saying I’m a trans woman really unnecessarily qualifies it.

Says if you’re not I’m not a woman. I’m a trans woman. And I really like, the way you’re pursuing. Now at times, it is necessary as part of a discussion to say I’m a transgender woman.

Depending on the conversation

My gender identity is female, period. I couldn’t wait Especially after I’ve discovered in 20, late 2014 and confirmed through 2015 that I could have surgery And have what I considered my birth defect removed. Fix my plumbing as it were. So I was born transgender. I identify as female, And I’m a woman. I am open to my friends as to what my past was. I am open to any and all questions from them. And nothing is off limits because I know people are curious.

The vast majority of my experience has been very positive once. I’ll give an example. I go to gay bars. I also go to straight bars. Just to be social, just to talk to people, have a good time. I don’t go there to get drunk. And I’m sitting in this bar. It was a straight bar, bar and restaurant. There was live entertainment.

I’m talking to this couple. An hour and a half into the conversation, Linda turns to me and starts asking me some other Very detailed questions about my past. And I go, okay. Look. I get it. You seem to be very nice people and very open, very, curious, so I have something to tell you. And I just put it all out there. We wound up closing the bar that night.

Lots of questions, lots of conversation, everything else. And I got a phone call from Linda about 2 days later asked inviting me the following Wednesday To meet her back at the bar restaurant for lunch. We wound up having starting lunch at 1 o’clock. We didn’t Leave until 5. One question after another, and I don’t view that as me having to explain myself To cisgender people. I view that as putting myself out there to them so that they have a better understanding of who I am and what people like me are all about.

I think the difficult questions are important. And many years ago, back when proposition 8 was going on in California, And the church I went to, we wanted to sign an amicus brief saying that we did not support prop 8. Prop 8 was to, put on Constitution that, marriage was between a man and woman. So I put together classes at our church to teach The different aspects of being LGBTQ. Some of the teachers were, like, really upset that some of the people were asking these difficult questions that they found offensive. I said, no. Those are exactly what we want.

We want all of this to come out and just address it respectfully, ease their fears, and talk to them. And as a result, our church passed it by 99% of our congregation signed on that they’re in support of of marriage equality. Without those classes and without those discussions of being open and honest and letting people just flat out say what they felt regardless of How offensive it may have sounded at the time, I don’t think that would have happened.

Exactly. I agree with you.

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I think it’s fantastic that you’ve you’ve now dedicated your life, it’s actually your career as well, to help people with the transition.

So I’m curious, what have you learned most as a transition mentor? What are the most common challenges that you see?

One of the first things that, I came to realize is a lot of people didn’t realize how much internal work you have To to align your inner being with who you really are. Initially, the focus will be on the Here, the makeup, the clothing, and all the external presentation, That’s not where it should begin. Where it should begin is actually becoming self aware, Learning to accept yourself for who you really are and aligning with that. Once you start doing all of that and start changing your whole mindset As to what you’re doing, then you actually start to develop self love. It takes time, but it it happens. And what I tell people that I’m working with is once you get through that process, all the physical, attributes are so much easier.

If you’re dealing with internalized transphobia, dressing what we consider traditionally consider feminine, It might help a little bit, but it’s not gonna change that.

No. It’s not. Because you

haven’t gotten the root of it.

Exactly. There’s a whole thing things that you can do with, If, mannerisms, behaviors, the the one word that I take out of a person’s lexicon It’s the word passing. Passing is a very negative word. It has a negative connotation like you’re trying to fool somebody. And that’s not what it’s about. It’s about being yourself. So the idea is to get to a point where you can just Blend in as any other woman. If that’s your goal, you can get there.

And you blend in by actually working on your mannerisms and behaviors. And I do quite a bit of work with people on that. It and you don’t have to be perfect. My god, I was not perfect when I started by any stretch of the imagination. You just have to realize that gender identity is formed within the first 5 seconds or less that someone sees you. It’s a subconscious, instinctive thing. They sit look at you, and they go, oh, male, female, male, woman. That’s it.

Now it’s up to me not to confuse them. And all I have to do is be 50% on. And because no man and no woman is perfect.

And as part of educating, I have a family member who And, but the the whole gay thing was uncomfortable. Once she got comfortable with that, trans was a whole another ballpark. And so we would watch TV, and there’d be a a trans woman on there, and she’d say, well, that just looks like a man with a wig. And so my husband and I just kinda slowly worked with her, and we showed her where you could look at a trans woman, and, she is what we we can traditionally consider a very feminine woman. But then we showed those that are more masculine looking, and we and we’re like, You gotta realize, like, if somebody has the bone structure without major surgery, they’re probably still gonna have what you consider a masculine look.

That doesn’t change what’s inside of them.

And it took a while, but we got there. And, again, what I like what you’re saying is Be patient and educate.

Because the antagonism gets you nowhere.

Exactly. And what I also, the message I also try to give people within the community is forcing people We’re expecting people to accept you no matter what. And being angry at them for not doing so doesn’t help either. Now I’ve found much more positive experience just having communication with people Yeah. And being open with them. I’ve I’ve met, I met 1 girl. She had to be at least 6 foot 4, probably a little over 300 pounds, nicely built, I mean, for a guy. Wasn’t overweight or anything, just a big person.

And she came into the restaurant to have dinner with me, and absolutely no one even gave her a second look. She had done work on her movement, her behaviors, her mannerisms, and had even learned there’s a very large range in voice

Where male and female overlap. And she had learned to consistently get into that range and even a little above it at times. No one gave her a second look. She blended in just fine. I know because I spent the better part of 2 hours with her in a restaurant or at a table And everybody walking by and nobody even looked twice. So it’s not about The body shape and size, it’s not about the clothing. It’s about how you carry yourself, how you conduct yourself, and how you Interact with other people. She didn’t have a problem at all, and she lives in the I I think she She lived in, the Binghamton, New York or Rochester, New York area. And she did just fine there.

Sounds like much of it has to do with confidence even if it’s faking it till you make it.

Exactly. You pick you’d things do get easier the more you do. Like, for me, when I was starting out, I spent 6 month I hadn’t cross dressed at all in 30 years when I started in 2015. I I had given that up completely. I hated it because it reminded me of who I wasn’t, Living asked. So I hadn’t cross dressed. I hadn’t tried anything. I didn’t even know when I started that there was a Transgender community on Facebook or anywhere else.

I mean, that’s how far out of it I was. I was on the verge of killing myself in late 2014. And I had decided rather than go through with it. I would get on my computer. I’ve been in tech for decades. I would get on my computer, And I would go and see if anything had changed. And I found out, much to my joy, that in 2012, everything had changed. I was now considered to have a condition that you’re born with.

It was treatable by therapy and hormone therapy And any necessary surgeries? Wow. The door opens.

And when you mean treatable by therapy, you don’t mean getting over it, but accepting it.

Accepting it. Knowing what you needed to do and go forward with it. I interviewed and Reached out to several, psychology centers around where I lived in both Bucks and Montgomery County, And I picked the therapist. My pick was perfect. My first therapy appointment, I poured my guts out, Brad. I hadn’t talked to anybody about this since 1970. And then again, a little bit in 1978 when I told my wife what I was.

Oh, what a way to live.

And my wife decided that, well, we’re gonna stay married as long as you don’t do anything about becoming a woman. I didn’t ask why. I didn’t go into details. I just accepted it because that’s my only option at that

Is it something you ever thought you would be able to get over?

No. Not at that point.

Because as as a gay man, I kept thinking, As long as I keep thinking it’s just about sex, I can get over it. Of course, I, you know, I was proved wrong.

But Uh-huh. No. I, I never enjoyed sex as a man. I I in fact, I didn’t know what when I started this, I had no idea what my sexual orientation was. I was in the wrong body. That was it. So I did everything to get by, and one of those was having sex with a woman. So I did.

It’s that simple. Yeah. I looked at it as a bunch of checkboxes I had to go through in order to survive and get through. Life. Either that or end it all. It was that simple.

Well, I’m glad you made the choice you did.

Thank you. So so am I, and I am nowhere near done living yet.

So in my 1st therapy session, I poured out my story. I poured out how I felt everything, And it was a lengthy session because it was an intake session. Stephanie, as I was say saying goodbye and going to leave, Stephanie was sitting With my file folder on her lap, it had my male name written on it. And she looks up at me, and she goes, what’s your name? And I just immediately, without even thinking, snap back Wendy. Much to my joy, she crossed out my mail name on the file, Wrote Wendy. From that day forward, between her and I, I was Wendy.

Oh, that’s awesome.

By my 3rd session, I told her on my 2nd session that, you know, I think this is gonna work a lot better if I come dressed as Wendy. And she said, this is a safe environment. You can come any way you wish. Well, I said, you know, that’s gonna Involve me also having a a a discussion and probably some very serious discussions with my wife about Because one of the rules was you don’t leave the house as a woman.

Okay. But I did. And this is one of the things that I encourage people I work with to do. Meditate and vision On what it would be like this was my vision for going that first time to therapy. What would it feel like To get in the car, back out of the garage, and drive to therapy in a dress, heels, A winter coat, how would I feel doing that? And picture that and just imagine all the feelings I would have. How how how wonderful it would be. Get in the parking lot, park the car, the sound of my shoes on the pavement, going across the parking lot. There was a long walkway down to a glass door.

I would see my reflection in that door. How would I feel looking at myself this way? How would I feel sitting in the waiting room? Well, actually, my visioning worked really well because the experience was far better, And I wasn’t scared.

I had basically rewired my brain to see that and see it as a positive And something that was really me and not scary.

So the key is to get in the right frame of mind rather than just doing it and saying it’s gonna happen.

Exactly. That 1st day, Stephanie couldn’t get over the personality change. My, male facsimile was depressed, angry, anxious, withdrawn, Antisocial. If my wife threw a party for the family and friends to come in on the holidays, I’d put in a 20 minute appearance and disappear. That would be it. I had the secret I was hiding, and it was just too uncomfortable to be around people.

Now you lived the lie for 65 years. What was the catalyst that finally made you say I’m done? Other than just exhaustion, maybe that’s what it was.

It was. And that that That last episode where I had this really dark suicidal ideation and was ready to go through with it. And I found out that it was possible to actually do this, so I had to explore it. I had to start therapy and see where that led to. And every time I went to therapy To both to and from therapy, I gave myself life tests. I stopped for coffee at Dunkin’ Donuts At a place where there was no drive through so I wouldn’t be cheating, I had to walk in and stand in line with people.

And the 1st time I tried to do that, I couldn’t get out of the car, Brad. I just couldn’t open the car door. I started the car back up. I tried for 5 minutes. I started the car back up. I drove to therapy. I think this was my 4th or 5th therapy appointment. And I walked in, and I said, Steph, I failed.

Well, this was key too. She looked at me and said, no. You didn’t. You’ll do it when you’re ready.

When was the fi that was a big first step just to get there.

Yeah. That was a shift in perspective. Yeah. So That’s the other thing I work with worked with myself on, and that’s the other thing I work with people on, is change your perspectives, Change your beliefs. It’s our we have thousands of thoughts going through our brain every day. Most of them are not terribly helpful. The other thing I like to say to people too is be careful what you say to yourself because you’re listening.

I have a question about transitioning. I had Aydian Dowling on the show Many moons ago, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Aiden. He documented on YouTube from his very first hormone shot to getting top surgery.

And what was so fun to me to watch when he went to get his Hormone shot was the look of fear in his eyes, but the joy in his face at the same time. Is that kind of a common feeling or is there tends to be more fear, more excitement? I’m sure it varies depending on individual, but what do you see most?

I think it varies from individual to individual. I started, hormone replacement therapy, with testosterone blockers and, estrogen on March 4th. My therapist and I used to joke I was marching forth. So by that point, I was so ready. There was no fear. I got my prescription. I got my I was on pills at first. I later switched to injections.

And they showed me how to do it myself, And I’ve never had a problem with it. As far as surgery, I literally ran through the hospital doors at about 20 of 6 in the morning at NYU Medical Center. 1st Avenue in 30th Street, and I couldn’t wait. I sat by the, by the window Waiting for it to go up so I could check-in for surgery. Again, I had no fear of that. I had waited for this my entire life, Oh, god. I’m one of my I think it was my 2nd follow-up visit to doctor Bluebon. I took I I took the train from, Hamilton, New Jersey up to Penn Station, got out on Seventh Avenue, and started walking down 30th Street, and I think somewhere between 5th and 6th Avenue, there’s there’s storefront windows, all black, Highly reflect reflective.

I stood there in the middle of the crowd walking down 30th Street, Just stood staring at myself in this reflective glass going, holy shit. You’ve done it. You are a woman, finally, physically as well as emotionally and mentally, and It just felt so wonderful.

I love that story.

That was an experience I’ll never forget.

So you’ve now dedicated yourself you’re you’re mentoring people through the transition, and I didn’t talk about that, and find out how they can reach out to you. But before, I wanna know, How did you go from being a techie to doing this position?

I was a techie because And, surprisingly, a lot of people in the transgender community that I meet are techies in technology. It was it was good for me because, in corporations, in corporate America, Business people don’t wanna talk to the techies. So it’s not a social job. You’re expected to go in to a computer room, into and sit at a desk with your computer system. And for the last 15, In 20 years, I work from home.

Good place to hide.

Exactly. When I had my surgery, New York City was wonderful for me. I met people. I wound up actually, speaking The first time to a fairly large group about my story, about my transition. It was unplanned for me. I didn’t plan on speaking. I was handed the microphone and said, talk. And My male representative, he would’ve run for the hills.

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed talking with people. I enjoyed talking with people afterwards, 1 on 1. I also enjoyed Helping other girls go through their surgeries. One of the first times there was a a soft sophomore Between a girl who’s between her sophomore and junior year at NYU who was having surgery with doctor Blubaughn, She was nervous and scared the night before her surgery. And everybody tried to calm her down, but nobody could. So they asked they called me in New Hope, Pennsylvania and asked me if I would talk to her. I said, sure.

I’ll talk to anybody. Is she called? I talked with her for about an hour and a half. I found out oh, I think it was in 2021. She reached out to me on Instagram. You probably don’t remember me, but you talked to me the night before your sir before my surgery. I was so scared. You calm me down. You assured me that everything was gonna be fine, and it I knew it was what I needed to do.

I actually was so calm, I fell asleep that night. Thank you. I’ll never forget you. It was one of the nicest messages I ever received, And that’s one of the reasons I love helping people. That’s why I got out of the techie business. I I love working with people and helping them.

Well, it certainly shows.

How do people reach you and and what do you offer them?

I work with people to identify, and eliminate the stress of life changes, and that’s what this is. Everybody goes through life changes. Some happen to be a little more profound than others. This one happens to be fairly significant.

A lot more than a job change.

Uh-huh. It’s a lot more than a job change or move or a divorce or anything else. But it’s still a life change. What I tell people when they start it is you’re gonna find joy on the other side that you never dreamed possible, And that’s what I’ve found. It’s a very different world, and it’s fun, and I enjoy it. I highly recommend it to anybody that thinks they need to do this, and that’s the operative word, need to do it. It’s not something that you want. It’s something you need, and then you can begin to accept it and go forward.

Well, I I think it’s wonderful what you’re doing. I have her website in the show notes as well as her social media. I suggest Start following. I just started following Wendy even just in the consideration page to reach out for you, and I think you can help them guide them a little bit.

And I’m open to talk to anybody about about this. I’m not a scary person to talk to.

She is not scary. I will tell you that. Well, thank you so much for all you do. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you. I love your attitude.

Okay. Thank you, Brad.

I am gonna be bold, and I’m gonna ask you to work. I love getting the emails and messages about how much you enjoy the show. Please keep them coming. They put a smile on my face, But I’m gonna ask you to go a little bit further. Let others know by leaving a review. I know life is busy, But you’ll give me a bigger smile, and you’ll encourage others to listen too, and that is what’s really important.

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