Brad Shreve:
This is Queer We Are. There are some great LGBTQ organizations. And through this podcast, I’ve had the good fortune to be acquainted with some of the leaders of some of them, and they have given me hope. Organizations you’ve likely heard of include the National LGBTQ Task Force, GLAAD, Trevor Project, Lambda Legal, and then there are all the equalities such as equality California, equality Maine, equality Virginia, equality Michigan, and that list goes on. But what do these organizations do? I mean, Are, you’ve heard about them in the news and you know they’re supporting the queer community, and some are fighting for our rights, and you may have even donated to them. I know I have. But are you like me and not know what it is they really do? I mean, really know? If not, how can you appreciate them as much as you probably should? On Queer We Are, my guests aren’t allowed to come on and just complain about the way the world is. They’re here to tell us what they’re doing about it, what you can do about it, and you get to hear some good news for a change.
Brad Shreve:
And, you know, sometimes they’re just here to entertain. Simply, this is a no whining zone. I have a representative of 1 of the groups I listed here to tell us what they’re all about. Sasha Buchert is a senior attorney with Lambda Legal, which was founded 1985. She joined them in 2017 when compelled when a certain someone got into office. Most recently, she is counsel in a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality, and I said that slow because it’s taken me 3 times, of the Trump administration’s ban on military service by transgender people and its counsel in Gore v Lee, a federal lawsuit filed in Tennessee challenging the state’s refusal to amend birth certificates for transgender people. Sasha and I talk about the challenges we face, of course, but also what is Lambda Legal doing about them and what you can do and some big wins we’ve had in recent years. And, you know, things have been tough, but there have been more wins than you think.
Brad Shreve:
Before we get to Sasha, I’d like to point something out I think is important. Before I give to any charity, I check them out on Charity Navigator, which is a charity organization of its own. And what they do is rate organizations based on their financial transparency, their effectiveness in the community. Big one is the percentage of money going to programs rather than fundraising operations. I’m gonna leave their link in the show notes. They give Lambda Legal a whopping 95% rating, which I will say is more than pretty damn good. And I’m happy to hear my dollars have been well spent. But don’t worry, that’s just my little plug.
Brad Shreve:
She didn’t come on here to spend 40 minutes begging for money. So I’m gonna shut up now because it’s time to get to her and you know where to find us. I’m Brad Shreve, and my guest is Sasha Buchert, And you don’t have to go anywhere because queer, we are. Sasha Buchert, it’s a pleasure to have you on Queer We Are. Thank you so much for being here.
Sasha Buchert:
Oh, thanks so much, Brad. It’s, pleasure to be on the program.
Brad Shreve:
You know, I know Lambda Legal. I know that you guys do great things, but I really don’t know specifically what the goal of the organization is. And I don’t know specifically what you exactly do other than I see great things that you guys do in the news. I’m sure others are just like me. What does Lambda Legal do?
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. Thanks. Happy to to answer that. I was, you know, I’ve been here for going on 6 years now, and every day, I’m even more impressed with the with the work the organization does. We’ve been around since 1973, and what we do is to, advance protections for LGBTQ people and people living with HIV through impact litigation is what we’re most known for. You know, Shreve we litigated Lawrence v Texas, for example, which was, you know, a case that struck down sodomy laws that criminalized intimacy, among same sex couples, back in the early 2000s, for example. But we also worked on Obergefell, you know, the marriage quality decision, landmark cases involving folks living with HIV, like Brad v Abbott, and the list is endless. And just in the last few years, there’s been some huge groundbreaking cases that we worked on.
Sasha Buchert:
So that’s what we’re most known for but we also do a lot of work on education. We know that it’s so important to win these battles in the court, of course, but also to win in the court of public opinion and that means sharing what we know about the lives of LGBTQ people and sharing stories and really lifting up our plaintiffs, for example, and telling their stories and, just humanizing, you know, LGBTQ folks. So there’s a lot of work that goes into education and we also work on public policy issues. We are currently working arm in arm with our partners across the country and and and seeking to push back and defeat the anti LGBTQ legislation that is growing every Queer. Also, working on introducing legislation that will, be helpful and shape folks’ lives in a number of different areas. So public policy, education, and most noticeably probably is our impact litigation.
Brad Shreve:
So you’ve done a couple things here and there over the years. Thank you for all the work you folks have done. And I’m glad you have the educational part in there because We can get all the laws passed we want, but they don’t necessarily change hearts and minds.
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. You know, as a I’m a trans person and I identify as a transgender woman. And it’s just, you know, really, really important to me that whenever I do an interview, you know, I usually talk about trans folks in particular just like a lot of other folks. You know, we we will have the same hopes and dreams. We want a family. We like ice cream. We like dogs. Just the the humanization is so important in this moment because the far right, unfortunately, is, you know, really seizing the moment of the unknowingness of trans folk because we’re just a smaller population.
Sasha Buchert:
It’s just mathematically really difficult to to know a trans person in a lot of cases. A lot of people do because more and more people have, you know, really been bold and have come out of the closet and living openly as who they are. We we’re still a small population, so it’s just so important to me We we take every opportunity to put put a face on the issue and and to make sure that people understand that there are real human beings out there who are transgender people who are living lives, trying to live lives without having to look over the shoulder and fear of discrimination. So just yeah huge huge huge props to all of the people, all of the trans people and non binary people across the country who are doing this really important work in in really difficult parts of the country in some cases, you know, where the hostility is so thick that it’s just really a challenging atmosphere. But but people are still, bravely, you know, going to their hostile state legislatures. They’re going to work. They’re they’re living, you know, their lives openly and and proudly. So it’s just huge, hats off to, you know, all of the trans and non binary folks across the country that are doing so much work to to shift public opinion, and support for for trans and non binary folks.
Brad Shreve:
Yeah. LGBTQ people in general are under attack right now, but, oh my god, trans community is just being brutalized. And I’ll tell you my theory.
Sasha Buchert:
Sure. Please.
Brad Shreve:
My theory is it used to be all about gays and lesbians because trans is such a much smaller community. And then once marriage equality happened and people were like, you know, they live next door to We. You know what? Pretty okay. I mean, I’m talking in general term here. Mhmm. So then Are right had to find somebody new to brutalize. Yeah. I was watching an old episode of Glee.
Brad Shreve:
Yes. I’m gay. And Sue Sylvester was running for office, and she wasn’t doing well in the polls. And she said, you know what? I’ve been pushing for something. I think I need to be against some. Mhmm. And when it comes to the folks on the right, that’s really their whole mindset. Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
What can we be against?
Sasha Buchert:
Do you
Brad Shreve:
think I’m on the right path?
Sasha Buchert:
I do. I think there’s a lot of you know, I’m not a sociologist. I’m a lawyer. But I you know, give you my opinion. I do think that there’s a number of factors at play. I completely agree with you. I think it’s easier to hate and fear than it is to love and and support, and I do think that that’s an easier way to to gain power, to demonize, you know, rather than humanize. But I think there’s a number of factors at play.
Sasha Buchert:
Certainly, there’s been a trajectory from going after I’m old enough now where I’ve lived through the marriage equality fights and the way in which the far right talked about LGB people back in the nineties left a, you know, a deep mark on me being the pain and and suffering that folks went through during that period. And you’re right. You know, the targets have shifted to to trans and non binary folks, but I think it’s really important, especially in this moment. I think that that would have happened anyway, but I think it’s really been escalated driven by a number of different factors. You know, I think one is loss of a portion as a political rallying. You know, they they it’s like the dog that caught the car. They got the Shreve Court decision and and now they’re finding out as as the president just said, the state of the union, what the consequences of that are gonna be, you know. And my point is that they’ve lost that issue to divide folks, you know.
Sasha Buchert:
So they are certainly going after trans folks, but I think I think it’s also important to emphasize that they haven’t stopped going after people of color. Racism and and discrimination against folks of color in this country, you know, has it’s come a long way, but this is so clear that there is still so much, discrimination that exists, you know, on that front. In addition, look at the the attacks, you know, on women still. Not just abortion protections, but IVF protections or access to, contraceptive care. It’s, you know, it’s all out of tact from the far right to go after what I view as bodily autonomy in in in many ways. It’s just the the freedom to live and make decisions about your own body. And and it’s about control, I think, too. I know that, you know, we wanna talk about what we can do to as a community, but I think it’s it’s just important to point these things out because I do think that if you look at these attacks as a whole, you see that they’re just, you know, it’s just this nonstop attack on freedom and liberty.
Sasha Buchert:
It’s not just bans on health care. It’s bans on sports. It’s bans on bathrooms. It’s bans on drag queens. It’s it’s bans on pride flags. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to ban dancing. It’s it’s really clear to me that this is an all that assault on on freedom. And I think there’s another reason for it too that doesn’t get discussed as often, but it feels really important to me because I feel like it’s part of our, you know, democracy is is the way in which a lot of these places where these this legislation, you know, is really causing the most harm are places where political gerrymandering has caused the most.
Sasha Buchert:
The least ability for people to rise up and stand up against, you know, these attacks because of the way in which these state legislatures are formed and and congressional delegations. So I think that’s a really important piece of this, our voting rights, to make a long story short.
Brad Shreve:
I definitely like to keep the show on the positive, but you we have to talk about what’s going on to know we’re gonna go. Yeah. Doing what I do here, I’ve gotten to know a lot of folks like yourself that are really out there doing some great things. And people need to be reminded of that. And that’s why I have this show. It’s funny you brought up racism. My husband’s a black man, and we live with his mother. We help Are for her.
Brad Shreve:
And they do it jokingly because otherwise they Are. They they just roll their eyes and, like, yeah. We know what it means to say bring America back again. You know? We all know what that means. You mentioned gerrymandering and everything. The polls overwhelmingly well, in some polls, it depends on what we’re looking at. Marriage equality is is very high. The the country supports it both.
Brad Shreve:
Even Republicans are frustrated at what, DeSantis is doing. But trans is lower in the polls, but still shows a majority of Americans support trans rights. But they cheat gerrymandering and all this other garbage. It’s just it’s sickening to run on a platform that people are against because for your own agenda. Just that’s not representation, is it?
Sasha Buchert:
No. They don’t even try to pretend. You know, I was I don’t know why I was expecting anything different, but, you know, after the 2016 election, I was just so stunned to see then President Trump talking in a way that was really only speaking to one small part of the country and at least prior administrations who had, you know, very fairly hostile views towards LGBTQ people pretended to talk to the entire country and to speak for the entire country, but this just was a I viewed it as a perspective where the winner takes all. And if you didn’t vote for me, you’re not I’m not gonna look at you’re not my constituent, and I’m not gonna do anything for you. And in fact, I’m gonna, you know, go after you is the the sense I’m getting from a lot of politicians, how they view their jobs as legislators, which is really disappointing.
Brad Shreve:
It really is. I always tell people, my listeners have heard me say this before, it’s Obama’s fault because he was in there for 2 great terms, and and they were like, no. We can’t have this happen. And it was a rebound. It was a rebound effect. And this minority people have well, they’ve done a great job of getting into our school boards. We Brad our we had our backstair while they were sneaking into the school boards and and getting the local communities. And people don’t vote in the local elections, and they’re they’re so important.
Brad Shreve:
You know, I I don’t understand why people don’t under get why it’s so important. You know, who’s the mayor affects me more on a day to day basis Yeah. Than who’s the president. And my god, the school boards have changed all these policies, and it’s insane. So, yeah, we know what they’re doing. And I want to get to, to some of the good things Are going on, but it was in the right after the 19, the 20 I’m sorry, 1916, The 2016 election that you decided to go with Lambda Legal. Am I correct?
Sasha Buchert:
That’s right. That’s right. Yep. 2017, I came to Lambda Legal in the summer of 2017. And I was here probably, like, less than a month and Trump issued his tweets about transgender military service. I was just sitting in my office looking at Twitter and just absolutely aghast Are realized how how bad things were gonna be at that moment.
Brad Shreve:
I presume you’re still on Twitter.
Sasha Buchert:
I am not. I have I haven’t closed down my account, but I rarely go and look at it. Only when there’s some, you know, massive news story. That’s pretty rare. I don’t really take an, aback and disgusted by the owners’ statements about, trans folks and trans issues. So I just don’t have the heart to, you know, I enjoyed a few great years on that platform and had some amazing conversations and it was a really important tool. But the way in which it’s then transformed into this really hostile, unmoderated climate run by a person who is clearly hostile to trans folks, you know, led me left me, with a bad taste in my mouth. And I go back maybe once or twice a year at the most.
Brad Shreve:
I suspend my account. You’re allowed to suspend it for 30 days. So every 28 days, I go back and reenact it and then I put it on suspension again. Because I keep thinking, someday, either it’s gonna go run-in the ground or maybe somebody’s saying we’ll buy it, and and I don’t wanna lose my name. Yeah. So I do the same thing. The reason I was thinking maybe you were on there, I thought maybe your job, you have to kinda know what’s going on, but you’re not getting the pulse of the nation. You’re getting the pulse of these crazy folks that are all on Twitter.
Brad Shreve:
They really give you a skewed outlook on what’s going on. So, I mean, let’s you might as well be on truth social these days to get a pulse of the nation. You know?
Sasha Buchert:
Exactly. Exactly.
Brad Shreve:
So you are the director of Lambda Legal’s Nonbinary and Transgender Rights Project. And it used to be called the transgender rights project, and it’s been changed to nonbinary. And for me, personally, and I’m gonna I’m gonna assume other people are like me. In fact, I’ll be very blunt. I’m always very open about this because everybody knows We. We’re fighting this hard to believe. I was really uncomfortable with trans. Once I got to know some trans folks in well, now I I’m not gonna say non binary is the same thing, but I don’t.
Brad Shreve:
People like nice little black and white bops. Yeah. And, you know, okay, male, female, but non binary. Wait a minute. Can you explain a nonbinary to us?
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. For sure.
Brad Shreve:
What does society view nonbinary?
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. I think it it’s not the same. I think comparisons aren’t great, you know, but I think one way to understand it is to, understand the experience of bisexual people who often get erased in when talking about, you know, binaries of being gay or straight.
Brad Shreve:
Well, bisexuals don’t exist. You know? They have to make a choice.
Sasha Buchert:
They’re just really gay. They’re just really lesbian. They’re just really straight.
Brad Shreve:
I’m still floored when I hear that. I’m, like, what?
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. It’s the same thing with non binary folks to some Shreve. You know, I think that some people just don’t identify as male or female and they do fall in between. You know, I think that thinking about sex and gender, sexuality and gender as these binary oppositional polls isn’t that helpful. I think that going back to the Kinsey Institute, I think that whatever people want to admit, I think it’s pretty clear that these issues Are, you know, fall on a spectrum. And there are people that just don’t identify as female and they don’t identify as male and and that experience should be honored, you know. And I’m grateful for you saying, you know, what you’ve said because I think that that’s probably the experience of a lot of people and it provides a model for people to be, you know, and I’ve experienced it in my own life and with different issues. It can be a challenge sometimes to overcome some of those ways in which we frame the world.
Sasha Buchert:
And talk about the trans community being small, the non binary community is minuscule compared to that, you know. So it’s really important that we Yeah. In the same way that, you know, the trans community doesn’t wanna be raised as part of the LGBTQ community, it’s just really important that we have a broad tent and make sure that we’re including non binary folks as part of this. You know, there’s been a little a lot of really great policy movement forward on behalf of nonbinary folks, you know, not just in the US but around the world. Asports have had ex gender markers now for maybe a a decade in places like India and Australia. As a result of some Lambda Legal Litigation, actually, we, have ex Are here as of, I think, 3 years ago now. So that’s that’s exciting, and there’s a lot of other wonderful advocacy being done and and, but it is something to, you know, to to grapple with. I think it’s helpful for folks.
Sasha Buchert:
You know, sometimes there’s there’s a lot of educational materials out there that can help people understand a little better who non binary people are, but hope that helps explain it a little bit.
Brad Shreve:
Yes. It does. I will say one thing I’m happy to see about non binary. Like, marriage equality is a good example. When we were trying to get marriage equality passed, unfortunately, all of a sudden, it became LGB because they wanted to make sure that we got our rights, and they didn’t think some organizations I’m gonna say some organizations, wanna ensure that we got our rights and they’re like, you know, we’re not gonna get it with trans, so we’re just gonna go forward. And trans community got pushed to the wayside, and and is paying for it now. I’m happy to see non binary being pulled in really before that happens. Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
I hope we learned from that.
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. I think we did. I think the state of the union state of the LGBTQ union is pretty solid right now. You know, I’m not saying there aren’t people that have strong feelings, but but overall, I think, you know, there’s a there’s a lot of I think there’s been a real movement towards that and I hope that continues. Yeah. For sure.
Brad Shreve:
If you can elaborate more on that as far as how you see more inclusion today than what it used to be.
Sasha Buchert:
Well, on a number of fronts, first of all, I think that people, especially since 2020, people have become a lot more cognizant about the you know, we talked about racism a while back and I think this is really important to I think a foundational understanding that I think is shared by most of the organizations is that the folks We we should be doing work on on behalf of the most impacted and that should drive what we do. And and clearly the folks that are most impacted are folks of color and specifically trans folks of color, trans women of color. You know, they sit on this firing line between racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism. So I think there’s been just a lot of work. I’m not saying a lot of it isn’t performative or just lip service and that doesn’t necessarily lead to the change that we would love to see in the world, but I think there’s a lot more effort anyway. I don’t know about the results. I’ll leave that for someone else to assess, but I think that there at least there at least is, a conversation happening about making sure that there’s around inclusivity and and the work that we We. Whether it’s the litigation, the public policy work, whether it’s a panel, you know, you wanna make sure that you’ve got folks of color represented, and then you wanna make sure that there are diverse experiences.
Sasha Buchert:
So I feel like that that’s one piece of it. I think that there’s been, you know, a sea change and interest in conversations around trans and non binary folks across the country. You know, I think, you know, I talk to law firms all the time and they’re super excited about these issues. And Are of it is their interest in the litigation, of course, but I think just generally. And and, so I I think I’m hopeful that that will continue. I’m not saying that there aren’t problems. There are, you know, that need to be, worked on, but I think that the trend is favorable. You know, I don’t wanna be overly pollyannish about it again.
Sasha Buchert:
I know there’s people have to better think about it if I go too far in that that direction. But I think, in my opinion, the trajectory is good, especially looking back at, like, the mid 2000s. I’m old enough and I’ve been doing this work long enough now. I’ve been doing it for about 10 years, you know, where I I do feel like there is a positive trajectory.
Brad Shreve:
Yeah. As much as it feels like we’ve been pushed back, and we have. Yes. Nowhere near what it was 30 years ago. Right. And it’s easy to lose sight of that. That.
Sasha Buchert:
There it is. I was just thinking the other day. I was, like, thinking about all of the I don’t know them by names. Somebody will have to check me on this, but I know that there are amazing openly trans performers that, you know, do amazing pop music and are models in almost every, you know, realm of public life. When I was growing up, it was pretty much Renee Richards. It was the end of my, you know, so I think that that’s that’s a huge change culturally and I think that this is to some Shreve, you know, Laverne Cox, of course, and and, Janet Mock, and I just I don’t wanna start Are I’ll leave somebody out, but there’s just endless amount of amazing folks. I think part of, you know, the anti trans stuff that we’re seeing is really backlash because I think people, you know, the dog whistle of Make America Great Again, I think, also includes having LGBTQ folks living in the closet. And, you know, the more open and out and the more accepting, whether it’s pop culture or education or wherever you look, of LGBTQ people is a threat to, you know, the view of America as something that it never was.
Sasha Buchert:
So I think that’s part of it. But I’m I’m I yeah. I you know, again, I I have I’m a very optimistic person, and I I like you, I think that it’s a difficult and dark moment to be sure, but I think the overall arc here is good.
Brad Shreve:
Well, you brought up the pop figures that are trans and how they’re being embraced. A lot of that is the Gen z Yes. And from the younger Gen x, their attitude. Yeah. What are you surprised by how embracing they are of they don’t even wanna be called gay or trans or they wanna they’re like, we don’t want those labels. We just wanna be.
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. Which is amazing, which is wonderful. You know, I I mean, I have gripes as every lawyer does. I think it is it’s wonderful, and it’s great, and it’s We, and and the numbers are very, give me a lot of hope, you know, every day when I think about the the next generations. 1, I would love to see more of them vote. I went through a training a few months ago, and it was just so depressing to understand how few folks that are, you know, under 30 vote. You know, the numbers are really, really stunning, you know, and it’s just that’s gotta change. You wanna see a difference in the world.
Sasha Buchert:
Because I my colleague, Chase Durango, over at the ACLU, issued an op ed in the New York Times talking about the movie that was released pretty recently with Will Ferrell, who traveled across the country with a trans woman. I haven’t seen it yet, but it’s a documentary, and it’s supposed to be pretty great. And, you know, he kinda parallel a little bit, like, the the rising visibility of of trans folks overall and contrasted that with the attacks, you know, and and said that visibility I think the thesis mostly was that visibility isn’t gonna save us here. We need to have people engaged and active. So, you know, as much as I appreciate the way in which the youth have really embraced freedom and and have chosen to live openly and authentically and live lives that, you know, we could have only imagined a couple of days decades ago. I do hope that they will translate more of that into action because there’s a lot of people suffering in this moment, and I I know we’ll come through it and, you know, we’ll be better for it, but I I just wanna remind people that there’s a lot of harm being done in the meantime. And, whatever work you can do to advance things in this moment We will diminish that harm and and suffering that people are experiencing.
Brad Shreve:
When I talked to Brian Sims, the, former Pennsylvania congressperson, state congressperson and is now doing advocacy work, he gave me hope because I brought up the voting of the young people. Democrats, since probably Kennedy, have worked very hard to get the younger generation to vote, and they kinda gave up because they realized it’s a lot of money and a lot of work and they’ve had little result. And, yeah, we need them to vote more, but we saw in the last the most recent elections that more are voting the percentage has gone up dramatically because it was so low. You know, it has gone up dramatically. Yeah. And I said to Brad, I said, you know, is it because these kids don’t care? And Brian goes, no. They do care. That’s why they’re voting now.
Brad Shreve:
They do care. Yeah. And I hope that’s a trend that continues.
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. Me too. I really do. I hope it does. I hope so hope it does. We’re doing you know, it’s so important that people remember to register and to vote. It makes a world of difference. And as you said earlier, not just the presidential elections, you know, the local.
Sasha Buchert:
Like, all politics is local as they say, and that’s just so key. So, yeah, please please please please take a moment. You know, you wanna Are active and wanna support your community and and women and people of color and trans and non binary people and you wanna make a difference, the easiest thing you can do is to vote. And the most important thing you can do is to vote.
Brad Shreve:
So this is gonna seem like a silly question. After 4 years of a nightmarish person in the White House, he that shall not be named, How does it feel like the other day when, LGBT community is mentioned in Biden’s State of the Union address?
Sasha Buchert:
Loved it. You know, I think it’s so important. I mean, the Biden administration has done the Biden Harris administration. I wanna make sure we give credit to the vice president who is absolutely wonderful and has been doing so much really important work on, reproductive freedom. I think that it’s reassuring, you know, I you know, I’m the kind of person that looks likes to look at action over words, you know, necessarily, but I just calling out trans people is just so important. It’s part of that humanization work that I was talking about earlier, you know, just saying the word trans I mean, We know that the last administration tried to ban the word transgender, and there’s just and We seen that in state legislation across the country where they, you know, they they will never say the word transgender because they because it’s humanizing. You know, it puts a face on the issue. So I think just saying that and he got some heat for it.
Sasha Buchert:
You know, there’s some far right folks that were, you know, complaining that he mentioned us as human beings. So, yeah, it was it was lovely. And, you know, I I I the Biden Biden Harris administration has done some really amazing work. You know, one of my favorite things that’s not talked about that you had, listed as part of the things we might talk about, which I raised now because my old boss I can hear my old boss in my ear who always said, make sure you bring judicial nominations to the dance. So just really am excited about the progress that’s been made on the federal judiciary. People forget that, you know, those folks are lifetime appointments, meaning that, you know, they could be on the bench after 3, 4 different 5 different administrations change over, and they’ll still be there. And some of the folks that we saw nominated and confirmed in the last administration, you know, had very clear records of their hostility towards LGBTQ people. So, just really, grateful to the diversity of nominees that the administration put forward.
Sasha Buchert:
You know, there were so many folks, amazing folks of color, clearly qualified folks for the job, but, you know, also diverse and not necessarily always coming from white shoe, you know, whatever that term is for corporate law law firms. You know, there are a lot of people who worked at, public defender firms and, just amazing diversity in in both the profession and, the demographics that we saw. Still waiting for the 1st trans and non binary nominee. There’s never been a nominee even. So I’m just hoping that by the end of the year that somebody gets nominated. I would really love to see that because I think that that’s again part of the work. You know, make sure somebody’s qualified. They have to be able to do the job, but it would just be lovely to to to make sure that that happens sometime soon.
Sasha Buchert:
But a lot of LGBTQ LGB, wonderful old nominees that have been nominated and confirmed and, over the last 3 years. So hope hopefully, that will continue, and and that’s, you know, really important again because, you know, a lot of these decisions that work their way up through the the courts don’t all necessarily get to the Supreme Court. You know, the Supreme Court is sure surely the last, you know, the law of land, but a lot of, places a lot of they only take about a 100 cases. So, like, you know, tens of thousands of cases end up in the in the different circuit courts, meaning, you know, the there’s 13 different circuit courts around the country. Some of these issues, really important issues, civil rights issues like guns and LGBTQ issues and Are reproductive freedom, you know, a whole host of different issues get decided at that level and might not ever make it to the Supreme Court or might not make it for decades, meaning that if it’s a, you know, really horrific policy, it just stays in place, you know, in that part of the country, which is really harmful. So really excited to see the changes, to make a long story short. Sorry to go on so long about this, but in the in the federal judiciary, and I’m hoping to see a lot more.
Brad Shreve:
I hope so too. And and, you know, we have 2 lesbian governors now, and it’s not gonna happen as fast as as you and I would like it to because we want it to happen now. I think we’ll see a trans governor before too long. I think it’ll happen in my lifetime.
Sasha Buchert:
Well, we yeah. We had there’s so many firsts that have, like, came in the last election. I can’t even remember them all for non binary and trans folks. I was yeah. You’re right. You know, there’s a first there’s a, there’s a trans woman running for, the 1st congressional seat up in Pennsylvania, Sarah McBride, and there’s some other folks that I believe are considering runs too across the country. So hopefully We see our first congressperson, which would be amazing, you know. So, yeah, you’re right.
Sasha Buchert:
There’s so many ceilings to break Are. So I’m just excited to see the trajectory for the community.
Brad Shreve:
And I think one of the reasons why we’ve seen so many that were successful and got is because we had so many that Are like, wait a minute. This has gotta stop. And they they ran. Yeah. So we need more people running. And again, back to the local elections. I think back to the libertarians when they had a lot more strength. And what the libertarians were doing Are they said We need to start locally.
Brad Shreve:
They were they were running for local office. They were running for state, and they were really gaining some power. And then for some reason, that changed. I don’t know whose decision it was. They Are focusing on the presidential, like, all their attention, and it fell apart. I mean, they’re they’re still around, but they’re not nearly as strong as they used to be, which you can be say that’s a plus or negative. Right now, I embrace libertarians compared to what we have. Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
But I think that we could learn a lesson from that.
Sasha Buchert:
Yes. Absolutely. To paraphrase the president, folks, here’s the thing. Most of most of you probably don’t know, and this is just being completely honest with yourself, who your state legislator is or your state senator and that’s just the facts. So that just is a clear sign to me that you’re right. We have turned away from, you know, local elections and have turned to the big shiny presidential elections Are maybe the senate elections at the most. And it’s just so important because there are so many, you know, positive changes that you can make, you know, on the local level, and your voice is so important. It’s just really important that people get involved and and know who your your state legislator is.
Sasha Buchert:
You can Google it, and you can enter your ZIP code, and you can find out and contact them and ask them what they’re doing to support LGBTQ people. At least know who they are and consider Are run yourself. Like you said, you’re right. People have been mobilized and they’re activated. And hopefully, it’s not just trans and non binary folks. Hopefully, we’re seeing more LGBT LGB, candidates as well as, you know, women and people of color and, you know, this country needs to I hope just more people get excited about the prospect of running for something and get involved and start going to city council meetings, get to know who people are and and make your move.
Brad Shreve:
I’m gonna give a great example why I think this is important. I’m trying to drill this in people’s heads. Sean Strub is a perfect example. Sean founded POZ Magazine and continues to do some great advocacy work. He is mayor of a small town in Pennsylvania in a very red community. Yep. And what happened when there was something that happened with the mayor and he he wasn’t necessarily just put into place, but it was pretty easy for him to become mayor. And then when it came time for the next election, he easily won.
Brad Shreve:
And he said, because people realize it, Who cares who I’m married to? Their trash was being picked up. Yeah. You know, and they realized everything was okay. If more and more people can see that and feel comfortable, okay, we have a gay mayor. Okay. We have a a trans state legislator and, you know, the world’s not falling apart Are lightning didn’t strike me. And then they’ll start being more comfortable. Yeah.
Brad Shreve:
For National Senate and National Congress people and the president.
Sasha Buchert:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just getting over that initial hurdle. You know, after that, it’s the question is, are they doing their job or not?
Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. So tell us some other good things that are happening, because we need to hear the good stuff. I look through the different online LGBTQ magazines, and if I dig, I actually started Are newsletter for a while, but I was just too busy Oh. Writing novels. I had to dig to find the good news. But there there was a lot of it and because it doesn’t sell head it doesn’t sell. So we need to hear. What are some of the good things that are happening?
Sasha Buchert:
For sure. Yeah. I mean, well, on the litigation front, you know, I think it’s really important to remind folks that as a result of Lambda Legal’s work, gotta push pump ourselves up a little bit here. But we, you know, have made serious changes with regard to, you know, the military’s treatment of people living with HIV who, you know, were being drummed out of the service before we got involved with our litigation and and those folks are now protected. You know, we have a saying here where we we lean in on science and not stigma, you know, and that’s led to a sea change in the way that the DOD handles folks who are living with HIV in the military. And, there’s litigation now, focused on people that are seeking to enlist in the military that are living with HIV. You know, there’s just a lot of misinformation and and, confusion and biased reasoning, in my opinion, with regard to not just, gender affirming not just with people living with HIV, but also with gender affirming care. So I feel like that’s just a that’s a huge victory that’s a little bit not told as often, but a huge victory for for the community.
Sasha Buchert:
We’ve also seen enormous strides. You know, with regard to the bans on health care for, trans minors overall. You know, the number of states from really conservative judges and really conservative parts of the country who have issued, you know, injunctions keeping, you know, those laws from going into effect is just absolutely stunning with really powerful reasoning that is so important because those district court judges, you know, the trial court level not to bore people with procedure, but there’s 3 different levels. You know, there’s the trial court, the appeals court, and then the supreme court. And the trial court is the court that hears directly from witnesses, and they hear from the plaintiffs themselves. They hear from the defendants. They’re they’re the people that are closest to the facts. And in these cases, you know, they’ve heard from families over and over and over again, and they’ve heard from the folks who are trying to inflict these bans.
Sasha Buchert:
And and they have, you know, repeatedly, almost universally, held that, you know, these laws likely violate the constitution and have enjoined them from going into effect. And there’s been some appellate courts that have ruled otherwise, unfortunately, that have watered down some of those really amazing decisions. Not all of them, but, you know, some of them. But I think that one of the the big victories out of that is the humanization of trans people, first of all, because they’re you know, folks are going to the courtroom and telling their stories, and the media is covering this, and people are recognizing that, you know, what’s really afoot here. So there’s just it’s been a lot of, progress in the way that people understand trans people and care needed to treat gender dysphoria. Since I’ve been doing this work, you know, the amount of hostility people have towards, you know, that care in particular is stunning to me. It’s the same care because it’s the same care in a lot of cases that’s frequently provided to non transgender people, you know, not cisgender people, non transgender people, you know, undergo hormone care for any number of reasons. It’s endless, you know, and same with puberty blockers.
Sasha Buchert:
A lot of reasons kids undertake that care. It’s demonstrated to be clinically effective for trans people, but it’s just anyway, to make a long story short, it’s just the there’s been a huge change in, I think, the way the conversation around these issues and people are understanding, you know, the the medical necessity and the clinical effectiveness and really has started to poke holes in the in the junk science that, you know, is is often used to to frame these issues. So there’s, like, those are a couple of really those are probably the most significant victories, I think, that, you know, that we’ve, you know, experienced. We know, we are seeing victories. We Are won a a really great injunction. We were filing a we filed a lawsuit in response to a don’t say gay bill that was passed in Iowa last year, and we we’ve challenged that. And it’s such a ridiculous attack in my opinion because everybody has a gender identity and everybody has a sexual orientation. You can’t it would be, you know, it’s just they don’t wanna come out and say that they’re just targeting LGBT people so they pretend it’s this curriculum issue.
Sasha Buchert:
And, we want a really amazing and job shaping that law from going into effect while the litigation proceeds. So it’s another victory that we’ve just seen. You know, and again, I think I’m going back to a lot the the larger picture. I’m not saying it will continue and and the burden is on the folks in this country that want to continue to live in a democracy, but, you know, we have seen positive results. The midterm election, isn’t an election that usually goes the way in which it did, you know, during a presidential administration. So I think that there’s something great to be said about people’s awareness of of what’s going on. Sometimes I worry that people Are are not really paying attention, but then, you know, the last Shreve elections have consoled me in that belief that people are are watching and they are paying attention, but it’s just so important that people stay vigilant. So those are a few things that I can, you know, probably mention a few more, but those are things that that are really top of mind right now.
Brad Shreve:
Well, I’m glad you brought the courts because one thing I don’t think people realize we we hear about all these bills that are going across the country, and it’s just outrageous, the number. But I don’t think people realize how much the courts have said Yeah.
Sasha Buchert:
No. Yeah. They’ve really, done their job as standing as the bullwerk.
Brad Shreve:
Are there any that surprised you?
Sasha Buchert:
A lot. Yeah. Like I said, you know, we’ve had courts and we had, judges that were appointed in the last administration in places like Tennessee. Tennessee is really a conservative deep red state with a court that was appointed by, you know, the last administration who actually ruled against us in another case, issued this really powerful decision on behalf of trans kids and and healthcare that was 60, 70 pages long and looked in detail at all of the issues and issued this really rock solid, well thought out, well reasoned decision that was really powerful. It got reversed by the 6th Circuit, but it was just a really amazing decision. So that’s one example. There was a decision in Alabama, similarly holding that, you know, its discrimination. There was a decision in Arkansas.
Sasha Buchert:
Arkansas, Tennessee, and Alabama are not the states that jump out of you as places where you’re gonna have judges that are gonna be more that that would stereotypically be more more supportive. And and all of the judges in those cases, I Shreve, were well, at least 2 of them were, you know, judges that were appointed by, you know, Republican administrations. Those are some examples. You know, it’s just it’s the it’s the same conversation I was having about things to to be positive about. So I think that’s certainly, been surprising. And I think that’ll continue just because it’s just, you know, such a clear cut issue and such a clear cut attack overall.
Brad Shreve:
I’ve seen a lot of people mobilize, but I have also seen probably an equal number of people that really Are ready to wave the right flag. They don’t see any hope. You obviously have hope Are you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing. Oh, yeah. Why should I have hope?
Sasha Buchert:
You should have hope because, again, look at the last 3 administrations. Look at the trajectory that we’ve been talking about and the arc of you know, I don’t wanna use Martin Luther King Junior’s doctor Martin Luther King Junior’s language, but there is progress that’s being made Are, and you have to you know, nobody said civil rights was gonna be easy Are human rights is gonna be easy. But in times when democracy is challenged and civil rights are challenged in this way, it’s so important that people don’t let down their guard. They have to stand up and you have to fight and you have to push back and you have to be visible and you have to you have to do the hard work. We’ve gotten a little spoiled, I think. There is a threat right now to our future and our children’s future, And, it’s just so important, but I think people should have hope. If you look at the past and where we are now, there’s just so many things to be excited about and and the hope We can continue to provide leadership to not just not just to protect ourselves and for our country, but for the world. You know, we’re seeing similar issues around the world with growing autocracy and and, the diminishment of of civil and human rights in a lot of different places.
Sasha Buchert:
And I think, you know, the more we can stand up and do what we can do now, creating a better future for a lot of people. One thing that doesn’t get discussed as much that I would love to infuse into the discussion a little bit is people being a little more cognizant about where they’re spending their money. You know, you can go to, open secrets dot org and you can find out who’s donating.
Brad Shreve:
I was gonna ask what people Yeah.
Sasha Buchert:
Find out which companies are are giving I’m not asking people to boycott this or that company, but at least be aware of which companies are supporting the politicians that are causing the most harm in this moment. I think that businesses, you know, have some accountability, and I think it’s really important that people understand who they’re supporting and be aware, you know, of when you buy that toilet paper at the store, you know, where does that money go? What is it what is it support? I don’t know about you, but I’m really sick of billionaires using their money to attack civil and human rights. And and we give them the ability to do that whenever we take out our wallets.
Brad Shreve:
And it is hard to boycott because I like to use Ben and Jerry’s as an example. Ben and Jerry’s, when they started, was a very liberal company, and it’s part of their marketing. They still are a very liberal company. Unfortunately, now they’re owned by a very conservative corporation that does a lot of bad environmentally. So it makes it tough. But when you have groups like Chick Fil A or Hobby Lobby, where it’s clear as day, That’s where you know
Sasha Buchert:
Love it.
Brad Shreve:
I was actually gonna ask what people can do to support what you’re doing.
Sasha Buchert:
Oh, great. You can support Land of Legal. I love that, you know, financially, you know, or or otherwise. But I think that, things people can be doing, you know, include number 1, voting, Register to vote and vote. Register to vote and vote. Number 2, find out who your state legislators are. You can just Google find my state legislator. Find out who they are.
Sasha Buchert:
I’m not even asking you to call them, you know, just find out who they are because as soon as you know who they are, you’ll get more plugged in, go to a city council meeting, get more involved locally. And the third thing would be just to, looking, you know, at where you’re spending your money.
Brad Shreve:
Well, thank you for your time. It’s been great talking to you. You’ve made me feel hopeful.
Sasha Buchert:
Back at you. Thanks, Brad. Thanks for having me in the program.
Brad Shreve:
When people are looking for new podcasts and come upon choices, odd Are good they’ll hit play on the one with the most reviews, especially if they’re positive. So please head over to Apple Podcasts, iTunes, or whichever app you’re using, and let others know about where we are by leaving a review.
